Linus is an absolute cunt for not only following this gleefully but then attributing pushback to “russian trolls” and “state propaganda” fuck you man.
These people weren’t the MIT pricks who inserted vulnerabilities into the kernel, they were contributors who did hard work and helped advance FREE software. Linus is now turning his back on the GPL and manning it clear that Linux can be controlled by the US state on a whim.
How exactly is he turning his back on the GPL? Those Russian maintainers are still free to fork the kernel, make whatever changes they want, and release it. The GPL has never guaranteed that a maintainer has to take contributions from anyone. Open source could never function that way.
Yep, anyone who is celebrating this is shortsighted and letting their own nationalistic ideas and jingoism cloud their judgement.
There is a hot war going on and the US is using sanctions to isolate Russia from using western technology to continue their genocide. That goes a little beyond “nationalistic ideas”. Russia is being isolated for their actions and this was past due. It sucks for the Russian maintainers, but under the heading of “war is hell” this is a minor inconvenience.
The US is the most belligerent nation on earth, shall we ban american contributors? How about israeli?
Should their code be removed from the kernel?
The real question i haven’t seen answered is Who owns the kernel code. Torvalds owns the Linux™ but that’s to prevent others from buying it, but i was under the impression the source code is owned by all those who contribute to it and not whoever happens to be employing Torvalds at the time. Or is it a matter of where https://git.kernel.org/ happens to be hosted?
I’d suggest Codeberg but that’s in Germany, so maybe another forgejo instance hosted maybe in Switzerland.
Who owns the copyright is irrelevant. Russian developers are still entirely entitled to use and modify the Linux source. The only thing they can’t do is submit their changes for inclusion in the main Linux development tree. The only real consequence for them is that their changes might be broken by future kernel updates and they will have to fix it themselves to use newer kernels. That, and they will have to maintain their own distribution system. I’ve also seen nothing to suggest anyone’s code is being removed.
The US didn’t invade Ukraine and, obviously, isn’t under US or European sanctions. I’m sure that you and I could agree on a great deal when it comes to American foreign policy, it’s just not relevant to this situation where Russia is the clear aggressor. (Setting aside the usual “buffer zone” bullshit that every aggressor state uses and Putin already abandoned).
Who owns the copyright is irrelevant.
It is, which is why i focused on where the repository is located and whether that determines possession.
Possession is irrelevant too. Access to source code has not being restricted, and doing so wouldn’t even be realistically possible. The only practical change is that new updates from these developers will not be published by the Linux Foundation, and ongoing integration will not be done by mainline Linux developers.
If Russia wants, they can fork Linux at any time, call it Rusinux, and do whatever they want with it. They could even port future Linux updates back to their kernel. They still have to keep it under the GPL2 license, but only if they want to honor Western copyright laws and treaties.
Sure, if words are meaningless.
Couldn’t think of a more lemmy thread topic than one involving both Russian geopolitics and linux.
There has to be a way to fit Star Trek in too…
Couldn’t think of a more lemmy thread topic than one involving both Russian geopolitics and linux.
part of me is sad that there aren’t many .worlders defending blocking those evil tankies. lol
Yes there are, I think you guys should block .ML and enjoy your botted shithole website. Better your feed be an obvious echo chamber full of hate.
you’re preaching to the choir here; my fault for not including the sarcasm/snark tag.
Lmao sarcasm is indistinguishable from the full on brigading from the “help tankies are brigading us” instances going on in here to me 😅
friendly fire is common on the lemmyverse and i think it’s because of the reddit liberals; they’ve managed to get almost every single reddit refugee to self sort into a few instances to protect their delicate sensibilities so they’re incredibly well organized and funded, or they’re EXTREMELY dedicated individuals to the point of doing it full time for free.
For me as an old fart this all sounds like such a stupid thing… who cares if someone who volunteer to work for an software project is a Russian, German, Iranian or - God forbid - an Frenchman. My personal - and of course completely insignificant - opinion is that politics should stay out.
Dude, WHAT. This is totally against what Linux and Open source in general stand for.
I don’t support the thing that I’m sure was their reason for this but I definitely don’t support banning someone from contributing to an open system solely off nationality.
So what eventually only the “good guys” can contribute to and use open source software? Who exactly decides who the “good guys” are in this scenario? USA? China?
The implications of what this can cause in the future for potentially all of the open source community is absolutely sad. We should welcome all our fellow human beings to contributing to open source.
Yeah, being from Russia is a lot different from being associated with the Russian government. If the maintainers are in the latter, then yeah fuck em, but if they live in Russia with no realistic way of getting out and they’re just trying to live a normal life removed from the bullshit and write code as an intellectual escape? And you take that away from them? Precisely how you radicalize people
Yeah, being from Russia is a lot different from being associated with the Russian government.
Lies! You’re a communist! Russian troll!
/s for the obtuse
You need that reddit.world or shitty.twerks URL to really sell the bit and make the tone indicator necessary IMHO
…and we don’t know whether they’re the former or the latter, no? So maybe a little early to get outraged?
Considering the US foreign policy and the impact it has on the world, regardless of whether the white house is R or D, i propose to ban all american devs… preemptively, ya know?
I don’t see what this has to do with my comment. I see no indication that all Russians are blanket-banned.
You are casually declaring all Russians should be assumed to be state agents until proven otherwise, and therefore the negative reaction to this obvious betrayal of principles, not even for convenience but for hatred, is unjustified.
I am literally saying the opposite: I am saying that it’s not clear that this applies to all Russians, or just ones that are sanctioned.
Would you say that Linux contributors with ties to MIT and other US universities that get funding from the same organizations of the MIC and intelligence racket are suspect? No? Yeah just Russians. Cold War propaganda chugging little twerp
No, I’m saying that if the banned people are only banned because they’re associated with the Russian government (/employed by sanctioned companies), then I’m not going to get outraged over the kernel maintainers. I do not expect them to break the law just to die on this hill.
This is all hypothetical, they are calling everyone dismayed by this Russian bots, and it’s clear this is happening in sync with US aggression against Chinese professors and tech workers in the west. Most of my comments here have been pretty independent of what you’re saying anyways. The wider context which could even justify speculating about this where open source is beholden to western laws and corporate practices should be a wake up call to people.
This is all hypothetical
Yes, that is exactly my point: let’s not get all worked up about something where we have almost zero facts. Although:
open source is beholden to western laws and corporate practices
is definitely the case for the Linux Foundation: it’s beholden to US laws. And wake-up call or not, a foundation would always be incorporated somewhere, and beholden to the laws of that somewhere.
I think getting all worked up about it is probably the first step to getting more information out of them. ┻━┻︵ (°□°)/ ︵ ┻━┻
Benefit of the Doubt…
Honestly I wish that was a principle that the internet embraced more. We’re so trigger-happy to be outraged.
No the contributors should not be considered guilty until proven innocent just to give Linus et al the benefit of the doubt fuckface!
Oh geez, this the third reply by the same account… Again, I’m just saying that we don’t know whether the contributors were assumed guilty, or if they have actual ties to sanctioned companies.
I’m pretty talkative on certain subjects when I see people mangling the discussion and engaging in bad faith.
This is just softpedaling it and telling people to suspect foul play just because they are Russian honestly. There are some significant sanctions going up against Israeli companies but nobody seems concerned with that.
As far as I can read from that, they’re still maintainers, just have had their credit removed from the contributors page, no?
Still a strange thing to do and I look forwards to an explanation.
Reminds me of a comment the other day on a post about Ventoy. Whatever the situation there is, which definitely needs clarification still, the person was saying that you shouldn’t trust it at all because the maintainer is Chinese, even though he has emigrated away. Because the CCP will be able to leverage his family still there to force him to create a backdoor.
That’s just thinly veiled racism in my opinion.
That’s plain racism honestly.
I knew a (asian) guy who was working for a government contractor serving the US military. The racism is very serious to say the least. He got framed when something went down and was almost tried with treason. (that carries the death penalty) The authorities hit him with questions about his loyalty to the US for 5 hours even though he grew up in the US and so did his parents.
Where is that argument wrong, though?
Think about how completely unacceptable binary blobs are for most people in this community. And now comes a guy who for no reason whatsoever puts a binary blob of unclear origin into a project that can be used to inject code on a bootloader level. And that’s somehow okay?
And the threat of the CCP is real. Look at the xz situation. The Chinese agencies are willing and capable to invest a lot of money to get access to systems, and they also have a track record of taking families essentially hostage (or just taking the target hostage directly, if they happen to visit).
Don’t you understand that China is ruled by an evil party? The maintainer could be the nicest bloke in existence, with the best intentions and highest intellect - but if he can be pressured by a dictatorship, that’s a problem. And that’s not even a personal thing, I wouldn’t blame him for giving in to the pressure - I would cave in too, probably.
You have to grow up and don’t just throw around racism for everyone you don’t like. That’s not helpful and actually diminishes actual racism.
Just an fyi but blob already stands for binary large object
@BobGnarley @kixik Yep this is definitely not a step forward.
It’s about sanctions, simple as that.
You guys love to walk yourself on how super friendly open source is and that utopia is juuust around the corner, if everyone would finally switch to Arch.
But the reality is, that it’s straight up illegal for the Linux foundation to deal with Russians. Yes, that sucks for a lot of people, but that’s exactly the point of sanctions. Every time some NSA adjacent entity contributes anything to Linux, you all get hysterical, but people living under an openly fascist regime, that is willing to kill literally millions of people, having write access to core infrastructure, that they are known to attack is perfectly fine? You really don’t see the problem here?
You still act like open source exists on a plane removed from everything else. Linux is critical infrastructure, it runs all critical infrastructure. We have to act like it.
it’s straight up illegal for the Linux foundation to deal with Russians.
[Citation needed]
As I wrote: sanctions. That’s what compliance means.
I gotta say, that seems likely. Not sanctions in a direct way, but indirectly through funding or other assistance.
Exactly. But mods here are too butthurt to accept that and rather delete my comments, so they can live in their delusions - which was my point
knowing nothing about the situation is indeed the problem. if only this process was more transparent…
Being Russian => banned from doing business with the rest of the world
That’s pretty straight forward to me.
and what do random developers have to do with a war between oligarchies? are we banning the dirty us imperialists next, because they do more damage than russia ever will?
or are we finding a negative thing about every nationality and ban international opensource collaboration entirely?
or, and hear me out on this one, the individual programmers making linux and 90% of the internet happen might not be fascists regardless of what shitty government reingns their lives?
Take it up with the concept of sanctions.
i do, (contemporary, us) sanctions are a way to punish entire countries for daring not to adopt neoliberalism.
i wonder how cuba would be doing right now if not for it.
WaR bEtWeEn oLiGaRcHiEs
Here grandpa you forgot your pills
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Western chauvinism:
the imperial core == the rest of the world
You may not have noticed that most of the world is ignoring the international rules-based order’s sanctions. And not only almost all of the Global South, which represents ~85% of the world’s people and the bulk of the world’s production* and natural resources. Even many Global North countries are skirting their own sanctions to trade with Russia.
The Global North is largely sanctioning itself, and Europe is paying a very high price for it. In particular high energy prices, which is eroding their industrial base even more.
*Since the Global North in its infinite wisdom de-industrialized itself.
The almost the entire world is against Russia. And I don’t see China coming to Russia’s aid any time soon.
When you think the entire world is just western countries. 🤡
You’re just making it worse 😂 You really have no idea what’s going on in the real world outside of the imperial core, and you’re really sure you do.
You can look up the UN vote. 141 counties voted for the movement to have Russia withdraw from Ukraine. 5 were against it and 35 abstained.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_ES-11/1
Sure, but that vote hasn’t actually done anything, and countries continue to trade with Russia. And the Global South countries haven’t curtailed their relations with Russia one whit. In fact some are building even deeper ties with Russia. They’re building an alternative system to SWIFT, they’re trading in each others’ currencies to avoid the dollar, and they’re making plans for some kind of BANCOR-like currency. The BRICS summit is happening right now, hosted by Russia.
The UN is a toothless joke, always has been.
@possiblylinux127 @davel Since 2022, China has amplified its purchase of cheaper Russian oil after the West hit Moscow with unprecedented sanctions.
Of course, money
Money and violence, the twin forces that make the world go 'round.
There’s definitely a lot of opposition to Russia’s actions in the world but your comment sounds especially funny today when leaders of most of the world(including the UN Secretary General and even a certain NATO country President) are currently in Kazan, Russia on a global cooperation summit.
But then there would be no Internet! /s
I have seen pictures of Linus Torvads so I feel that I am uniquely qualified to explain whats going on. Let me break it down for you.
The Linux Kernel is meeting compliance requirements by removing Russian maintainers.
Thank you all and have a good night.
The problem is they aren’t even saying what those requirements are even after numerous inquiries about it.
Don’t you think its wrong to ban someone only because of their nationality? I mean for real man. Every country in the world has done some fucked up shit but open source software is supposed to go beyond politics and ideologies.
They weren’t doing anything malicious it was wrong to remove them.
Allegiance is another thing. Russian citizens unfortunately are subject to Russian law and the influence of the agencies.
Maintainer is more than a contributer in that it is a position of trust, which is called into question when they and their computer systems are subject to a belligerent governments jurisdiction.
International economic sanctions? He said that.
They were getting paid to develop the Linux kernel? No? Then what’s actually the requirement?
Actually I’m interested how it looks legally ( it somebody cares about it at all ). Whether the Russian contributors could ask to revert their changes as they most likely never signed the contract to transfer their code copyrights. For sure it will have a big impact on foss because if you have at least one American and Russian contributors, you may get in the biggest shitshow. Additionally if I was considering now to become a contributors, I’d be wondering if it’s worthy at all to work for free and then to be banned no thanks for whole free work years
IANAL, but I think the general answer is no. When someone contribute code to an open source project, although they aren’t giving up their copyright, they do grant the recipient (and the rest of the world, for that matter) a license to use their code. In case of Linux, this is the GNU Public License. Unless GPL has a section about license revocation that I am not aware of, you won’t be able to take your code back.
So I think good luck for foss movement. Hopefully, forking that project won’t be illegal because otherwise foss will die
I am quite disappointed at the lack of transparency regarding this.
This is dumb. Corporate divestment, sure, of course, fuck their money and their power structures. But open-source developers are not generally gung-ho about the war effort… let alone propping up their local military-industrial complex.
This is the only plan the west has to win the war. Keep fucking over random Russians in the hopes Putin somehow becomes politically vulnerable over this, despite opposition getting weaker than ever throughoit the war and with the onset of sanctions. Now we are asking random Linux contributors, please come back when you’ve overthrown your government for us.
Russia is of course the only country that has ever invaded another country so it’s only fair.
No matter how many vulnerabilities are introduced into software by western allied intelligence agencies, we should never be held accountable for dealing with them ourselves. After all Russians are uniquely responsible for their tyrannical government because of their Asiatic brainpans.
All those guns are for show, I guess.
Fuck off.
Fact is you know I am right, you just don’t have any principles. You seem baffled some people uphold principles.
LMFO I was on the reddit thread reading this post and coudn’t believe my eyes reading the comments. We’re living truly revelation times. Like you said this is a long due wakeup call for the rest of the “uncivilized” world.
I was wondering what’s up with the comments but then I realized the main feed sent me to .ml.
Comments do drastically differ between .ml and .world. On .ml, you’ll see more sympathy towards Russia and China.
But the issue on hand is way bigger than that. It’s importance is not in Russia getting sanctioned somewhere else - it’s in the destruction of openness and trust in the open-source community, which has far more reaching consequences. What has been done is pretty unprecedented - and dangerous.
And I’m surprised other Linux communities are silent on the matter.
I can’t stress how much the western supremacists are off the rails on this one: agreeing with the standard sanctions policy commonly used by the US, of punishing entire civilian populations based on the actions of their government, regardless of how you feel about that government and its actions.
Code is code, the nationality of the person shouldn’t be used to exclude them. ppl know how most of us here feel about Israel but I would never even think of excluding an Israeli contributor to any of the projects I work on.
Are they excluding contributions or maintainer status?
Half the problem with .ml is the even blend of sensible takes and wackadoodle nonsense. That’s the systemic reason everyone who’s not pro-wackadoodle catches themselves going “what the f-- oh, it’s a .ml community, yeesh.”
The other half of what’s wrong with .ml is the blatant censorship all over the goddamn site.
The userbase’s downvote-happy inability to take criticism barely matters.
@mindbleach @Allero From what I’m seeing from Lemmy, I would estimate the wackadoodle’s to be much higher than 50%.
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You should stay on reddit.world or sh.itjust.twerks telling your fellow Redditors about how we need to send billions of dollars to foreign wars that RAND corporation and Chatham House have admitted they never intended to win (they thought Russians would overthrow their own government if enough Ukrainian men and adolescents die on the battlefield long enough, pure strategic genius, Zapp Brannigan would be proud).
The latest report that I saw was Russian attrition was nearing a collapsing rate in which the expected experience and levels of fatigue of renenforcments were to mean the expected casualty rates would climb exponentially on their side.
@fruitycoder @griefstricken Yes MSNBC has been claiming this for oh the last two years.
That’s interesting because I remember reading that in 2022. Meanwhile Zelensky is publicly threatening to deploy “3 secret weapons” which he apparently discussed behind closed doors with western leaders who are responding negatively to this pronouncement (indicating an unwillingness to escalate)
Let’s be for real, Russia could tac nuke a non NATO Eastern European country in response to whatever dual use weapons zelensky is talking about with a nuclear payload, and their chief worry would probably be the global backlash, not the threat of strategic nukes
Put down the washing machine memes and listen to the quieter admissions of Ukrainian soldiers. That’s how I saw them throwing civilian bodies into a pit, gloating, before editing 30 min later to claim they took it off a Russian phone (despite visible armbands). Morale is breaking down, conscription is failing versus the Russian mercenary and volunteer partial mobilization. There is no political change coming in Moscow.
@griefstricken @fruitycoder I don’t think political change is even desirable, contrasted with Dmitry Medvedev and especially with Boris Yeltsin and Mikhail Gorbachev before him and pretty much the farther back you go the worse it gets, Konstantin Chernenko, Yuri Andropov, I mean farther back you go the worse they get. I think Putin really has been the most willing to work with us if we had only returned the same in kind, as any Russian leader in history. As for political change, though I do not think it will come as a result the political will of the people, sure he has his detractors but think most people are not unhappy with him, where it’s likely to come is simply the fact that he is 72 years old, we don’t know the state of his health or how long it will hold up.
It’s a horrifying prospect unless you just want to maintain access to natural resource and monopoly rents via international corps, offered up by whatever Navalny type they would want to take power.
Medvedev… yeah no way but it would be funny.
@griefstricken Prior to nuclear weapons perhaps but that kind of takes the humor out of it.
Eh, nuclear weapons are a paper tiger. Building them is profitable, not using them in a big flurry of apocalypse. Maybe a tac nuke in Lithuania, NATO would not dare respond. Zelensky should not use any nuclear payloads, not a silver bullet.
If you make your points with less belittlement, we mods will have to spend less time fielding reports.
This was the wrong account, this is one that blocks everything and says nothing. Blocking and arguing go poorly together the way they work on here.
Seems like you are the one drinking the Kremlin Kool-Aid tbh. The Russian invasion of Ukraine is deeply unpopular, because it’s such blatant imperialism. They are trying to re-vassalise Ukraine, same as they did with Georgia. Simple as. Putin still has delusions of empire and cold-war era “spheres of influence”, and his pretexts for the invasion are paper thin to anyone not drinking Putin’s Kool-Aid. Support for the Ukrainians has nothing to do with Western propaganda - it’s got to do with the fact that Putin has made it very clear what his end game is, and nobody except Putin and his gross coalition of authoritarians, religious extremists and dictators want to give Russia the chance to strongarm/invade its way into becoming the USSR again. Having said all that, I’ve got nothing against Russian programmers working on open source software. Unlike yourself, I’m perfectly capable of distinguishing between the actions of a State and its citizens, many/most of whom are no doubt decent people.
That’s so cute that you think that anyone who doesn’t eat out of the hand of Google News is brainwashed by Putin. You’re such a critical thinker. Thank you for weighing in.
Actually the difference between me and people like you is I actually read what Washington and Kiev are saying about the war and have memory longer than a goldfish! Plus, I avoid search engines that have gone under heavy censorship since February 2022 by groups like Alliance to Secure Democracy. I have far more cogent criticism of the Russian government and their media, their central bank, and MOD than anyone like you, or most of the supporters of the SMO. Mainly that they let the west get away with a Nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 and sat on their hands.
Of course support for the Ukrainians has nothing to do with western propaganda LOL, you have no choice whether America and its sub-imperial partners in Europe, Australia, Japan, and South Korea send supplies and funding to the Ukrainians. It doesn’t make any difference whether you buy the propaganda or not. These same thinks tanks that call for a war in Ukraine are now discovering that western industrial capacity cannot be restored and falls far short of doing anything other than delaying Ukraine losing.
The economic shock of the coronavirus pandemic has now rolled into the mass realignment caused by sanctioning Russia. Sanctions place a burden on all countries which are expected to abide by them. Outside of western countries which constitute 14% of the world population, people are ambivalent about the Anti Terrorist Operation Against Donbas Separatists entering year TEN, they only care about the western financial system being turned into a weapon against them.
In fact, even American vassals like Europe and Japan are becoming more cagey about war. It certainly is not inspiring the hardcore faction of the Taiwanese about war with China.
You act as if we killed your dog. There is nothing stopping you from moving on. You can jump to an instance that is more agreeable to you or you could create a big block list. However, lemmyml has earned a bad rep from the rest of the community.
@possiblylinux127 @griefstricken I was working on bringing up a lemmy instance here, but after seeing the typical lemmy users I think I shall abandon the project.
Still worth while to do so, the trick is you need to defederate problematic instances. Not hide them, fully defederate. That stops problematic instances and communties from affecting your userbase. There’s many great Lemmy servers and communties out there. Just because a few of them aren’t great doesn’t mean you should dismiss all of them.
I encourage you guys fully defederating the Redditor based instances from the people who actually care about the integrity of open source projects. Get lost creeps! You haven’t made a single argument in this thread other than “all Russians are spies” and “all dissenters are Russian spied”. Useless idiots!
I haven’t made any arguments in this thread, you are putting words in my mouth, and not really helping your credibility. All I said is that the person should defederate Lemmy instances and communities which go against the mission of their instance. Something that almost all instance operators would likely agree on.
Just for the record though, I don’t believe people should be kicked out of a project based on their nationality, that seems incredibly xenophobic. I don’t know where you got that idea that I said any of those things from.
You’re encouraging someone who wants to block “problematic instances” in this case people voicing opposition to that xenophobia, to host lemmy (an open source project where most instances have large linux communities), and taking them seriously on their concern trolling in the first place. It does send a bit of an unusual message.
Anyways I stand by it, that person should fuck off back to reddit.
No, you are wrong!
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Good, Lemmy is not very well-made software. I won’t belabor it, but you are dodging a bullet. It’s methadone for reddit. You can see the junkies fiending in this very thread.
@griefstricken I see useful things happen on Reddit, can’t say I’ve seen a parallel in Lemmy so far. And I’m not sure I can get it to run in the configuration I want to, which is to say having it NOT on the same machine as the web server proxy or database.
Take it to the dev/host chat buddy I can’t help you
There is nothing stopping you from moving on
This guy was just telling me he couldn’t stand to see opinions that don’t mindlessly support sabotaging the Linux community. Now he says I should just move on? Weird.
it’s a pity that politics is penetrating more and more into open source and FOSS.
recently support for Russian cloud providers was cut out of opentofu. https://github.com/opentofu/registry/pull/824
now this. this is, of course, natural the core and many components of modern distributions have not been free in terms of decision-making for a long time and are under the influence of large companies, which in turn are under the influence of the USA.
FOSS has always been political. And usually fairly reactionary.
Agree with the former, not the latter.
See: the FOSS higs that all flipped out when contributor agreements with codes of conduct like “don’t be homophobic or racist” started popping up.
It was quite a struggle and there is still a large old guard that simply refuses to move on it.
You’re greatly overestimating how many people that is; additionally, it was largely people that aren’t very committed to FOSS that got mad. The project maintainers and most users are fine with it. People who are committed to FOSS ideals are overwhelmingly progressive to leftist. That’s why those codes of conduct were added in the first place, and were largely uncontroversial amongst most actual contributors of those projects.
The projects that have those codes of conduct are the ones where any reactionary maintainers could be overruled. You have to look to the projects that have never had codes of conduct, the old guard and Incelie techbro spaces. Brave’s CEO is a homophobe, for example. This has been known for years, he still makes homophobic comments. Brave does not have a code of conduct or community guidelines. And basically anyone that notices and tries to address an issue like racism or transphobia with a repo suddenly finds a mass of reactionaries coming out of the woodwork.
Open-source is politics.
MKTux
It’s a fact of life that politics permeates everything, nothing is in isolation of the political climate it exists within.
The state of the world today is a function of the politics that got us here, a big change in world politics can have dramatic and far reaching effects.
A healthy global FOSS culture requires collaborative politics to be the flavour of the day—which is unfortunately not the case in a lot of countries currently.
A healthy global FOSS culture requires collaborative politics to be the flavour of the day
Bullshit. There’s no reason people with political differences can’t collaborate on the same project, unless those differences are really huge.
Politics is not just the relationship between two people, it’s the relationship between a person and everyone/everything else in the world.
Reducto ad absurdum: would you suggest a world where every country is at war with everyone else would foster a better environment for global FOSS collaboration than one where the world was at complete peace?
I honestly thought the statement you quoted was entirely uncontroversial. “Healthy” and “global” being the key words, I’m not saying it’s a requirement for FOSS to exist in general or anything.
Well for what its worth there are other counties outside of Russia
We had a time of peace everyone was dependent on each other. Now the world is fragmenting and we we’ll probably have war or at least high tension between the parties.
What was this alleged time of peace you speak of?
40,000 years ago
@possiblylinux127 @TheOubliette Four years ago was certainly more peaceful than today.
I might frame it as less embroiled in open war and extermination.
@TheOubliette i don’t think there is any way you can measure and/or frame it that my statement is not true.
To split hairs, saying “more peaceful” implies it was peaceful in the first place and even is now, just less so. I don’t think it was peaceful at either point. Which why I am framing it as a status quo of violence that was lesser 4 years ago and greater now.
It depends on how you measure it. That was the start of covid so people were dying
@possiblylinux127 Whether you measure it by the sheer number of conflicts, their average size, or the number of people dying as a result.
To be honest, the only reason why any of that appeared to be true, or the west appeared to uphold free speech, just like free trade policies and laissez faire approach to international finance, that was all just because Wall St did not feel threatened, that was all just because the propaganda was received unthinkingly for the past 30 years or so. Especially between 2001 and the first part of the financial crash.
russia is untrustworthy country and taints even regular good people by them having to live there. What can they do if kgb or something calls and tells them to put in some code they want? Refuse and watch their loved ones die? Comply but risk telling the community they just did that?
edit. ok maybe that was a bit too harshly put. But dont you think at all that there is possibility that kremlin would exploit something like that?
@reksas @fireshell There is no such thing as a trust worthy country because they’re all run by politicians and there is no such thing as a trust worthy politician. There is an old saying, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Oh… USA is untrustworthy country and taints even regular good people by them having to live there. What can they do if CIA/DEA/CIS/DHS/SS/FBI or something calls and tells them to put in some code they want? Refuse and watch their loved ones rot in prison/get deported/disappear/die? Comply but risk telling the community they just did that?
Finland is an untrustworthy country. America is an untrustworthy country. You want special ttreatment for citizens of the NATO bloc despite constantly running intel operations and huge invasions since WWII and especially the 90s, thag got worse after they successfully desposed the former USSR and turned it into the capitalist shithole of the Russian Federation - which tried damn hard to ally with NATO before we pushed them away. No, it’s not “harshly put”, you have antique, vicious neoconservative politics and racist bullshit to back it up.
“Compliance requirements”? The kernel’s american now?! WTF?
The commonality of all these maintainers being dropped? They appear to all be Russian or associated with Russia. Most of them with .ru email addresses.
Not short-sighted in the least…
Similarly, the driver code remains within the kernel – including for Russian hardware such as around the Baikal CPUs from Russia’s Baikal Electronics.
Not a hypocrite move at all…
Are israeli developers blocked as well? How about all american developers considering how the US foreign policy keeps fucking everyone up all over the place in the name of liberty and freedom… of oil?
Which law under which jurisdiction?
I suppose any law in any jurisdiction you want to use it, don’t you think ?
Guys, are you all really that young to not remember alla the fuss with crypto software ? Same thing here: you want to distrubute something in a country, you need to follow the country’s law, even if they are stupid.
You do realize that the Linux foundation is an American based entity right? It isn’t a shock that it is bound by US law.
They employ Torvalds, Torvalds owns Linux™. Who owns the code?
The kernel’s american now?! WTF?
Now we see the intended outcome of the “Inclusively” movement of the past few years.
I can’t wait to see this “Inclusively” extended to China, India, Brazil and others.
We’ll truly be the most Inclusive ever!!! What a great thing!!!
The open source / FOSS movement in China is pretty rad. I use a sweet all platform text editor maintained by Chinese devs only.
People should be more wary of the control universities, NGOs, finance through those, law enforcement infiltration etc from US, Euros, Japan, South Korea, Aus has over open source projects due to technology being such a high national security priority.
Guess we’re just going to be racist and run with the misdirection of criticism of US laws on to foreign enemies. Just go with the flow, I guess.
If they really want reverse brain drain it isn’t my problem, it’s their long term problem. CERN is also making a dumb mistake, all universities are in on this, it’s imperial chauvinism.
Fantastic to hear! wonderful news. Racists and Xenophobes will try to stop global collaboration, but the real conflict that matters will always be the smart vs the lowiq. FOSS is about humanity first and not any particular sub-category. Everyone who gets in the way is trying to divide and stop FOSS from saving the planet.
Racists and Xenophobes will try to stop global collaboration,
Yes! Go on…
real conflict that matters will always be the smart vs the lowiq.
Uff… That’s some serious brainworms right there. How do you call your worldview? IQ Supremacy?
I think at the moment FOSS movement has a core of libertarian idealism which historically cleaves to the west when anything is on the line. This is because of academic institutions being dependent on/greedy for financial and political backing, and the control of the time economy of workers by tech corps trying to turn open source into “mow my lawn for free, build character” or by the media platforms which popularizers/online tutors of open source tech and software and operating systems are dependent on
However it is also a worker’s movement in some ways not just a device user’s movement, and I think it will play an important part in the battle over Wall St’s tech cash cow globally.
I wanna skirt by all the political stuff and ask what that text editor is?
Nope I’m keeping it
Gaslight gatekeep girlboss
Well this is the last thread where I want to open up possibilities of text editor drama, but it is Siyuan
I wouldn’t be surprised if they did something similar for China at some point. (If tensions worsen)
I don’t see them doing anything outside of that
Gotta have them “various compliance requirements”, man, gotta have’em. Don’t ask me what they are, but damnit, gotta have’em.
This is such an odd thing to do… I really cannot see the benefits for the project doing this. Maybe those maintainers were payed for their work and sanctions prohibit paying them or something?
Or maybe some Russian State backed programmers have tried to slip in backdoors in various key systems, numerous times. Including one that almost went live on millions of machines.
What I see is that someone is arguing the point that all Russians are criminals. If someone is sending bad code, they usually just get banned, this time it’s preventive measures based on ethnicity.
it isn’t like Americans would do that, right?
But where do you have information that it was russian state? There are many state actors capable of doing this. Just saying
Even Wikipedia, which is a shockingly bloodthirsty pro-NATO outlet, admits there is zero proof that a “Russian state actor” did this, there are just “western security experts” claiming it (as usual), and opinion is divided.
Did you even read this or do you just vaguely remember a Wired article? I have been able to see through these obvious ploys since I was a teenager reading about cold war propaganda (okay that was like 5 years ago but still SMDH)
Great sign for discussion that hacking is still being treated by Redditors as Russian, Chinese, and North Korean until proven otherwise. 🤕
@griefstricken @chaogomu Seems to me, after the Stuxnet incident, any US claims of bad foreign actors are a bad case of the pot calling the kettle black.
The funny thing is Stuxnet is a good example of how sanctions can backfire. We used a supply chain attack and the Iranians hardened their systems. Can anyone really claim it was any different than another Mossad “humiliate them and hope something happens” operation that ultimately blew the cover off years of intelligence work?
The Lebanon pagers attack, Russian sanctions and CERN or Linux creating reverse brain drain will continue to backfire, on our ability to even twist these screws, also on our supply chains in countries which consider themselves a US target or even just a middleman.
Lol
I wonder if there are any official US documents declaring an intent to hide cyberattacks under the flags of foreign nations? 🤭 Wouldn’t that be droll?
Even Wikipedia, which is a shockingly bloodthirsty pro-NATO outlet, admits there is zero proof that a “Russian state actor” did this, there are just “western security experts” claiming it (as usual), and opinion is divided.
Well, I don’t think that a “[insert your preferred state] state actor” would ever coming out saying “yes, we tried to to it”.
Not to say that what Wikipedia say is false but on the other hand I am not sure how to check if it is true, in these cases.
It’s literally just speculation. Even if it were true, what the fuck does that have to do with the nationality of a few Linux contributors? Have you people cracked?
It’s literally just speculation.
I agree.
Even if it were true, what the fuck does that have to do with the nationality of a few Linux contributors?
Probably nothing, I agree. But since there are sanctions against Russia I suppose they have not really any other choice.
Is that sad ? Yes, but it is life.
By keep it vague and saying their hands are tied they also get to dodge any kind of scutiny on what decisions they actually made before doing this.
My first thought is that this was to make Linux palatable to western regulations, like how companies can’t use Kaspersky anymore. Stupid if I’m right because it’s not like the fsb is going to sneak spyware into Linux.
Edit: Linus commented on this and I was right: https://lemmy.world/comment/13034386
They very well could. However, it also could come from some US intelligence agency as well.
No one knows yet. Given the scale of the operation it’s most likely a large organization.
Possibly, but that’s a much smaller project being run by 1 guy. Linux has a lot more people and reviews involved.
