Hello World,
Today, after careful consideration and evaluation of recent events, we have decided to defederate from Lemmygrad.
Regrettably, we have observed a significant increase in hate speech and calls to violence originating from the Lemmygrad instance. Due to the severity of the posts and comments, we are not waiting for the next Lemmy update that will allow users to block instances.
At Lemmy.world, we have always strived to foster an inclusive and welcoming user environment. However, recent posts and comments from Lemmygrad have clearly violated our server rules and, more importantly, our core values. We firmly believe that hate speech and incitement of violence have no place in our community, regardless of personal beliefs or affiliations.
As always, we encourage all users to report any content they deem inappropriate or harmful. No matter one’s stance in any conflict, Lemmy.world will always take immediate action to remove and ban any posts or comments that incite violence or propagate hatred.
We encourage everyone to continue engaging in discussions within the boundaries of respect and understanding. As we move forward with this decision, we remain committed to providing all community members with a safe and welcoming space. We appreciate your continued support and cooperation in upholding our shared principles.
Thank you,
The Lemmy.World Team
Strong move.
Thank Fn god! Good decision mateys.
typical fediverse, lol
What exactly is going on over there? Sincere question, I’m ignorant of the Lemmy drama and cesspools.
They have a group for celebrating trolling in any actual discussion. Bad faith arguments and just shit throwing trying to derail any actual conversation. Any online group, and I mean any at all, is better without them.
Me too. And I’d rather not look it up, to not give them more measured attention. I’d rather ask people who experienced it :D
Actually, we’ve never been federated with Hexbear. It was blocked before they started federating with other instances.
hexbear
I am all in! That shit is a cancer.
Get my boy out of your filthy mouth.
I just gotta say, the moderation here makes me so happy I joined this instance.
Ditto.
bro im a leftist and i dont understand
how people who dont live in the Levant
need to comment on these local issues
Because people who don’t live in the Levant caused these issues 80 years ago, and actively fund it today
I don’t understand
Why people need
Huge line breaks
Between each statement
Why shouldn’t people comment on international affairs?
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It seems reasonable to condemn both terrorism and genocide.
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The current landscape is a product of foreign parties drawing the map.
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The US props up Israel, who in turn have propped up Hamas to justify their treatment of Palestine.
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The bulk of the middle east has some stake in this issue for one reason or another.
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Same! I moved over from lemmy.one, and was re-creating my block lists when I discovered that lemmy.world had already defederated from hexbear. So that saved me like 40 blocklist entries right there! Good job, admins!
This is an admin thing, some mods are still all over the place on this instance.
Do you have any examples?
!world
From the sidebar:
While not required, consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link.
Then you find a top post removed with the reason of mediabiasfactcheck, for a source with no fact check fails and a slight “center right” orientation.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Meaning: no rules.
Not sure who redacted that, but it allows any arbitrary decision.
!politicalmemes
From the sidebar, rule 2:
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.A lot of comments removed with a reason of “rule 2”, even when including multiple links to support the claims made. After I got one of those, I tried replying to some comments by providing sources for the claims they made, while citing the rule. My comments were left alone, the parent comments got deleted for reason “rule 2”. At no point any mod actually asked to provide sources, clearly didn’t check the ones provided.
Personally, I’ve left (blocked) that whole community.
I get mod overload, I get different communities with different rules, but these handwavy approaches that allow misapplication of one’s own rules, don’t lead to anything good.
Then you find a top post removed with the reason of mediabiasfactcheck, for a source with no fact check fails and a slight “center right” orientation.
If I look through the modlog, I don’t see the particular post you mention, could you maybe elaborate on which post you mean?
Meaning: no rules. Not sure who redacted that, but it allows any arbitrary decision.
I disagree with the statements that that means “No rules”, it just means that sometimes a technical rule violation doesn’t warrant a removal of a post. There is no world in which rules are perfectly complete for every edge case and no “arbitrary” decision ever need to be made.
A lot of comments removed with a reason of “rule 2”, even when including multiple links to support the claims made. After I got one of those, I tried replying to some comments by providing sources for the claims they made, while citing the rule. My comments were left alone, the parent comments got deleted for reason “rule 2”. At no point any mod actually asked to provide sources, clearly didn’t check the ones provided.
I’m actually a mod for politicalMemes. If I look through the modlog, I don’t see many instances of comments / posts being removed for rule 2. So could you please specify which removals you are referring to?
If I look through the modlog, I don’t see the particular post you mention
Yeah… I’ve been looking through the modlog, and can’t find neither that, nor the politicalmemes ones. I think it was about a week or two ago, so it’s not easy to parse (or maybe I’m doing it wrong).
just means that sometimes a technical rule violation doesn’t warrant a removal of a post
If it’s supposed to mean that, why not just write that? Or, instead of “rules”, maybe call it “guidelines”, if they’re supposed to be interpreted on a case by case basis.
I think it is pretty clear that the case-by-case statement means that there is some flexibility in the rules. But I will consult with the other moderators of politicalMemes to see if they think changing is necessary.
Before I saw lemmygrad: wtf are we doing?
After I saw lemmygrad: glad we defederate…
i don’t interact with lemmygrad much, and i don’t really want to. so please could somebody tell me what sort of hate speech was happening there?
I think they were referring to the recent events in Israel in this case but the instance was problematic from the start.
I’m usually fine with interacting with people from all over the political spectrum, but genocide is way over the red line for me.
The amount of heavily upvoted comments there about white washing genocide, trying to deny it or somehow justify it was disgusting. I’m not talking about recent events but mostly those committed by regimes that called themselves communist, no matter how far they actually were from it.
I don’t agree with communists in general but I also don’t agree with many other ideologies. I don’t mind being around communists if we can talk respectfully. But I consider tankies the left wing version of neonazies.
In short, there was a lot of users who were openly celebrating the attack on Israeli citizens and justifying it with the occupation of Palestein which is a very nuanced issue and situation.
Lemmygrad doesn’t tolerate hate speech, I browse it and the only “hate speech” I see is against fascists and landlords
New protected classes just dropped: fascists and landlords.
I always find this when talking to aggressive leftists:
“what’s wrong with punching and hating nazis?” they say.
The problem is that they decide everyone and everything they don’t like us a nazi and a fascist.
People who have to have that explained to them are either narcissistic, idiotic, or are complete zealots
You know how that works. There are no bad tactics; only bad targets.
Of course you mod a Jordan Peterson community.
Well you will love it there, then. Go hang out there.
I imagine given recent events that there was a lot of antisemitic hate speech coming from nominally pro-Palestinian people.
Hexbear next.
i cant even understand what they talk about on that instance. I see arguments about liberals, and conservatives but everything they say about these groups makes no sense at all, and I dont know anyone that holds positions or values.
After the chapo subs got kicked from Reddit, they went over to hexbear and…the few years they spent in that isolation bubble haven’t been great, it seems. A little too extremist for my tastes. Like I’m here to waste time and chill, not have academic arguments about why Stalin was actually great or whatever the fuck.
Like I’m a leftist, but fuck. I ended up just blocking the instance because I got tired of being shit on for any particular seemingly innocuous comment.
hexbear previously, actually. lemmy dot world defederated from them quite a while ago.
They have been defederated on Lemmy World for months: https://lemmy.world/post/2498330
But you are on aussie.zone so they might still be federated and will explain why you see their posts and communities.
Still federated with dbzer0 even though dbzer0 has a strict anti-tankie rule.
No grad is blocked over here but not hexbear. The reasoning is because the admin at db0 “doesn’t think they are actually tankies” but supposedly “will ban them if a need arises.”
I think they are tankies and as such the need has a-risen, but I’m not the boss around here and users don’t own the means of instance blockage, so.
It’s kinda fun watching liberals realize that Bolsheviks aren’t leftists
it’s rad when a political position built on a lot of background knowledge is dismissed by people who lack that knowledge and have lived their whole lives in the global capital of anticommunist propaganda
And we pumped just, just, dozens of stories about Cuban atrocities, Cuban rapists, uh, in one case we had the Cuban rapists caught and tried by the Ovimunda maidens who had been their victims, and then we ran photographs that made almost every newspaper in the country of the Cubans being executed by the Ovimunda women who had supposedly been their victims.
These were fake photos?
Oh, absolutely. We didn’t know of one single atrocity committed by the Cubans. It was pure, raw, false propaganda to create an illusion of communists, you know, eating babies for breakfast and that sort — totally false propaganda.
Former CIA Agent John Stockwell Talks about How the CIA Worked in Vietnam and Elsewhere
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Former CIA Agent John Stockwell Talks about How the CIA Worked in Vietnam and Elsewhere
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
There are plenty of people (including those in power in some countries) that absolutely lie about capitalism.
Their lies, although clearly in support of other regimes, don’t make capitalism any less shitty.
Likewise, some capitalist lying about communism doesn’t make communism any less shitty.
They are both crappy systems, and they lead into each other, because at their core, they tend towards different and opposite kinds of violation.
It’s not that we’re uninformed, it’s that we disagree.
a lot of you are uninformed. You don’t know what you don’t know. I’ve fucking seen it firsthand. And it’s not surprising, because a lot of these topics are fucking arduous to learn about, you don’t just pick it up ambiently by browsing reddit and watching the news.
And a lot of you pretend that you know more than you know, pretend that others don’t know anything, and that a video of this one guy from 40 years ago paints a complete and accurate picture of what’s going on today. And have the balls to talk down to everyone else.
Like the other commenter said, it’s more that we disagree than that we are clueless. Just look at the comments section on that video and the way people who eat the video up handle that information about today. It’s reminiscent of conspiracy theory group think.
Also weird that you only focus on the US about the horrible things it has done. I can think of other governments–including my own–that have done and continue to do horrible things today. It’s not the gotcha moment you all think it is.
I post one thing, you think it’s the only thing I can post?
a million Iraqis died on a lie in your lifetime. The bombings and sanctions after the Nayirah testimony killed another million people in the 90s. The Jessica Lynch abduction hoax was widely publicized, I’m sure you’ve heard of that one, Lynch herself came out against it. Fictitious witness accounts of a genocide in Libya led to a NATO bombing campaign that obliterated a once-prosperous country and there are now open-air slave markets in Libya. A large number of North Korean defector testimonies have fallen apart under scrutiny, as reported by the Guardian.
this is all stuff that’s been in the news, that you’ve probably heard of.
I’m really not excited to go further in a thread where people upvote something like this in response to my earlier comment:
pretending that a video of this one guy from 40 years ago paints a complete and accurate picture of what’s going on today
Nothing about that changes the fact that Bolsheviks aren’t leftists. You guys have never seen an argument that you didn’t dodge with a red herring or straw man.
They have some secret source that they all know about that makes them more knowledgeable than everyone else. Because if they had to admit that wasn’t the case, their worldview and arrogance falls apart.
“The US must be to blame for Russia invading Ukraine because I said so and I’ve only read books on the ‘US bad’ side like a real intellectual!”
Definitely. This commenter I replied to is now claiming that the US is responsible for this and that, but a quick search of all their claims debunks their stance. Could the US be bad? Sure, every single government will do some shady shit to protect their interests. For example, my country has been involved in sequestering and murdering protesters in recent years. Was it the whole government? Of course not, it was a local one with their own interests and layers of corruption because these things are complex. And likewise, I don’t understand why they have to lie about what the US does and exaggerate it beyond reason, like going as far as to wrongfully blame it for other unrelated things. Just tell the truth! Why is it so hard?
claiming the US is responsible for this and that […] wrongfully blame it for other unrelated things
a claim I literally never made.
quick search
emphasis on quick.
You guys have never seen an argument that you didn’t dodge
You didn’t make an argument, you just said “Bolsheviks aren’t leftists.” Am I supposed to write some kind of “most common criticisms” FAQ-style response? What do you want from me on a fucking weeknight.
“Bolsheviks aren’t leftists” is an argument, bud. And what you’re supposed to do, if you want to respond, is address the argument, not something else that you find easier to attack
It’s a statement, something you would back up with arguments.
THANK YOU!
Good Job! You make my experience of Lemmy continuously better! You cleaned that CSAM up with the speed of light (I’ve never even noticed it), you managed the Piracy Community Troubles very well and now you made an well thought through decision about Lemmygrad. Well done Mods! And thank you all very much!
A well thought through decision that gives no examples or arguments?
With the timing, I have to assume the reason is “they support Palestine.”
They have pronouns in their user, and argue in bad faith. Chances are it’s a tankie from Hexbear or Lemmygrad.
You have snow in your user. Chances are you are a penguin. Or a cocaine dealer.
Alts on other instances that are federated exist for that reason.
where’s everyone else’s nuance in this thread? Is it just me who needs to write a carefully worded diplomatic letter?
You want my opinion, I think we are making the same mistakes we made after 9/11, where we work ourselves up into a fucking frenzy, ignore the historical background of what’s happening, buy in to a simplified narrative, and give vague blanket support to whatever awful countermeasures we’re told are appropriate. Like the indiscriminate bombings that are killing hundreds of Palestinians now and probably not hitting a single Hamas fighter since they’re all down in the fucking tunnels.
Or this collective punishment shit, which is a fucking war crime against the entire population of Gaza:
“I have ordered a complete siege on the Gaza Strip. There will be no electricity, no food, no fuel, everything is closed. We are fighting human animals and we act accordingly.”
It starts to sound like “human animals” might refer to Palestinians in general.
I agree with your message insofar that the Israeli government is absolutely genocidal. That doesn’t make Hamas’s actions any more justified tho, and that’s most likely the reason why lemmygrad is being defeded: All the people saying that Hamas did nothing wrong, and those that call for the death of Israeli citizens (rather than the toppling of the Israeli government).
Unfortunately for you no one wants your opinion
I actually agree with your opinion, but that’s not why you were downvoted. It was because you concluded it had to be messages in support of Palestinians that were being deleted.
Look at the comment I’m replying to. It’s net positive at this time, 7-3. The issue isn’t what you’re saying at all – this comment is incredibly sensible and very apt condemnation of Israel’s government.
The issue was the people who not only believed that, but also believed the Hamas was justified in killing civilians and everything else they did. That Hamas got a pass for it all because they were fighting Israel.
That should strike you and me as not only disgusting, but incredibly ironic. The extremes of this issue actually make the exact same argument, that X is justified in all its actions because Y wronged them. They just switch X and Y, and pick events from history that support their claim – and there are events which fit both.
Without Hamas attacking though we wouldn’t be talking about Israel- Palestine nearly as much. If you silently accept being genocided people across the globe will blissfully ignore, including the people right across the border. That doesn’t mean the attack was justified, that’s not the word I would use, as it lacks nuance. But similarly saying acts of terrorism are always unjustified lacks nuance.
It heavily depends how you define an act of terrorism. There’s a difference between acts of terrorism and rebellion, although it isn’t a clear distinction.
Is it a good thing that we’re talking about Israel Palestine though? We’re talking about it because innocent people have died, and Israel is seeming like they’re going to do something horrific to innocent people too. How does this help the Palestinians undergoing genocide? The Hamas attack has turned a lot of sentiment against Palestine, which is unfair for the civilians.
I understand wanting to call attention to an issue, but the manner by which you do that matters a lot. I can bring attention to any issue I want by claiming it as manifesto when I slaughter innocent people, but it isn’t positive attention in the slightest.
The nonviolent protest for civil rights in the US was successful because it was a very palatable alternative to the black panthers. Hamas already exists for Palestine. A nonviolent protest in Israel against their policies would’ve garnered positive attention to them, and possibly even worked.
Do you think the Black Panthers were a negative for civil rights?
Hi! Jew here, the perfect person to talk about this situation!
The continued occupation of Palestein is not a good situation under any circumstance except that by Israel holding that land it prevents the neighboring countries from invading the area and starting wars with Israel which is why the land is held. Feel free to ignore the whole “it’s our birthright, it’s jewish land” cause let’s be honest, even that’s questionable in the torah.
Moving right along, the continued occupation is the reason for the attack, but that makes it no more correct. Innocent people, potentially including children definitely including teenagers, have been murdered.
With that understanding out of the way, lemmygrad was defeded because users were actively posting in favor of the murder and in multiple cases posting/hoping/whatevering for even more of it. Guess what? That’s 100% against TOS of lemmy.world. I don’t like the situation the two nations are in but advocating for the death of innocent people is fucking disgraceful.
I take it as frustrated leftists overcorrecting in the other direction in response to media coverage that ignores the decades of openly racist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and treats this attack as some sudden unprovoked thing out of left field.
This is true, but doesn’t make it any less abhorrent.
It just doesn’t work that way. Maximum tolerance doesn’t mean intolerance for the average, unrelated civilian that happens to belong to the oppressing group.
While you’re welcome to take it that way, celebrating innocent deaths of any group of people is abhorrent.
struggling to reach escape velocity with this comment, wording it is mentally taxing but the later it gets the slower I think
I can’t speak for anyone or read the thoughts behind people’s words online, but I know people tend to say fucked up things when they are angry and I know people are really fucking angry right now, myself included. That doesn’t mean I feel catharsis watching religious extremists slaughter a village of Israeli settlers or shoot up of a fucking rave — but I feel a kind of enraged grief. Because that kind of barbarism and extremism is the inevitable fucking result of what has been done in Palestine. Extremism like that doesn’t spring up in a vacuum. When you hear things like, half of the people in Gaza are children, and half of those children struggle with suicidal thoughts, and 95% of the fucking water is unsafe to drink, and most of the population is unemployed, and then you turn on the news and all the politicians and media personalities are throwing their unreserved support to the government responsible for it… and then I go on lemmy and I see comments talking about Palestinians like they’re some kind of hive mind, and getting upvotes for it, it just feels like these attitudes are why the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians can continue. And I’m helpless to do anything about it. It’s fucking maddening.
There’s that unfortunate modification to “those who don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it”:
Those who do learn history are doomed to watch others repeat it
The difference is that you can still call out the Israeli government without supporting Hamas’s deplorable actions.
Oh I already do. Not a fan of Israel’s kind of shaky interpretation of the Torah for why holding Gaza is ‘approved’, and very very against Hamas as an entity even before all this stuff in October 2023.
It’s a tricky thing, having a possible enemy right at your gates for years and years. For the sake of example, what if Russia as we know it was where Canada currently is? How does one remain calm when there are those plotting right in front of you?
Those civilians on both sides don’t deserve any of this.
You are 100% free to leave Lemmy.world and join Lemmygrad. There is nothing stopping you. And from the Ratio of the Post the most People agree with the decision of defederating.
No one forces you to be here 🙂
I’m not a lemmy.world user, I’m a lemmy.ml user
You can still leave.
EDIT:
Wait and why are you complaining that lemmy.world is defederating Lemmygrad?
Free speech is important. Every opinion should be heard and considered. However, your freedom ends when it crosses over someone else’s. Good riddance, i had blocked most of lemmygrad’s communities anyways, since all they did was spread propaganda and hate.
Love the mod team (being ex-reddit, never thought I’d say that), the transparency and clarity of their communication with the community is great!
Free speech is important. Every opinion should be heard and considered.
Not content-sharing with a website also isn’t in any way a violation or stifling of free speech. Lemmygrad still exists. If you want to know what they’re saying, you can go see it.
Freedom of speech does not guarantee an audience, and all that.
I think we need to start reframing it as some sort of combined right to freedom to speak and freedom to not listen. Right now the majority of the time I hear someone talking about freedom of speech is when they want the authority to force people to listen to them.
You are thinking of freedom of association: you are free to associate with people you like. This implies that you are free to not associate with people that you don’t like. It’s in the First Amendment too.
Blocking some dumbass from posting or commenting is just saying you don’t want to associate with them.
Amen to the mod part! Shows just what forum admins actually caring about said forum’s community can do for it
Free speech is important. Every opinion should be heard and considered.
This is as good a place as any to point out that if we federate again after users have the ability to block instances, brigadeers with ill intent will ensure that some opinions are heard more than others.
Thank you for keeping your users safe. ʘ‿ʘ