It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.
And Russia expected their little venture to be done in days.
deleted by creator
It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
“No plan survives first contact with the enemy”
“Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
What drugs are you on and where can I get some?
Clearly hasn’t compared the US and Chinese economic data
Lol literally every single line of that post is absolutely nonsense.
The US is on its last legs though.
Lol in what universe? By way metric is the most powerful nation in the world limping along?
It badly needed this win.
If we badly needed a win we wouldn’t be sending 30+ year-old surplus gear. Ukraine would have F-35s instead of the air force trying to pawn off A-10s because we’re retiring them and don’t want to break them down.
The US falls before Putin dies.
Unless he’s a Highlander there’s no fucking chance.
I always take a peek at the comment history when I see things like this. And this guy basically just woke up to say things like this in one specific thread.
I’m no longer a mod of anything these days, but if I had a mod-hammer I’d send you into the next galaxy.
To say the truth. The Us is collapsing and soon their Nazi vassals in Ukraine and Isntreal will also suffer a complete and utter collapse (god willing)
“We’ll fight til the last Ukrainian!” - libs
“We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies
Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…
I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.
But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.
But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.
It is 2023. I am being called a tankie for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 2003. I am being called a Saddam lover for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 1969. I am being called a commie and probably also racial slurs for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
Commie
What are you, 80 years old? The modern term is “tankie”.
Alexa play “Story of my life” by One Direction.
it’s the Iraq war all over again
Oh so you’re against the invasion after all?
More than you guys it seems. You’re all salivating at the idea of Russians dying and this war never ending.
Putin could stop this war and thus Russians from dying at any minute. He’d just have to give up on imperialism.
I’d be happy if Russia would simply send its soldiers home.
Me too. We take Putin out, return the USSR, and then we dismantle the far-right apparatus in Ukraine as well. We close all US military bases and shut down NATO.
We then impose on the US strict international laws to never have a military, to interfere or invade another nation again, or it’s dismantled and given to all 3rd world countries it fucked over the past 100 years.
“Being against war means you are our enemy!” - the “pacifist”, “anti-war”, liberal.
„Libs“ we’re against the Iraq war. It divided the US population and the whole western world. Never listened to American Idiot?
I’m confused. You want us to protest against one sort of imperialism, but not the other?
I think you’re remembering incorrectly bro… After 9/11, if you didn’t support invading any vaguely Muslim country you were a traitor. Fucking libs on TV were cheering for killing Saddam and invading Iraq, dismissing any attempts to question why would that even make sense as weak-spined traitorous behaviour.
Also, how can you say that while you support a never ending war in Ukraine?
Is Russia imperialist? Yes. Is this invasion a tragedy? Yes. Did it happen, and will continue to happen for a long time in good part because of the US? Fuck yes as well.
I don’t support Russia invading or winning the war. I don’t support NATO breaking its promises and meddling in Eastern Europe propping up Nazis.
The US Empire is directly responsible for Putin, in the first place. And it’s now directly responsible for the extreme right in Ukraine.
What anyone who’s actually against war wants is for the US Empire to fall and NATO to be dismantled. For Putin to fall and the Russian people to have freedom again. For the Nazis in Ukraine to not have power anymore.
If you support sending billions in weapons to Ukraine (as fucking debt, Ukraine will be in debt to the US and Europe for centuries…), if you support war games in South Korea, Taiwan, if you complained when Biden left Afghanistan… you’re literally a war hawk.
You blathering fool. I’m not your bro and never will be.
When you see a school bully who fights a smaller kid who doesn’t want to give up his lunch money, what do you do? You are the kind of person shouting at the victim to comply to avoid any further bloodshed, right? You’re fucking filth. I think I even watched a Star Trek episode about your fucking kind, lol.
Just for your information: NATO has nothing to do with this. Other than being a scapegoat of course. Quite the opposite, if Ukraine was part of NATO, this war would never happened. Why do you think Poland and the Chech Rebublic were so eager to join it? NATO is a defense pact. But I know, people like you don’t care. NATO is the big boogie man you need to justify your political views.
And no, I don’t remember incorrectly. The Bush regime was republican. They faked evidence to attack Iraq. The were huge demonstations and turmoil Google the Dixie Chicks, listen to American Idiot. I’m not american. I’m german. We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil” because we didn’t agree with the war. Shut the fuck up.
I was always pretty left leaning. Never liked US-Imperialism since I got 16 and realised Tom Clancy Novels were pretty one-sided. But if supporting ukraine means I’m a Hawk, so be it. All I know is, I don’t want to be on your side!
Your comment truly reeks of “I’m pretty left leaning” lmao
We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil”
Slight correction, no, they didn’t go that far. We’re “Old Europe”.
It was also when they renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries to protest the French being, well, French, as if the French wouldn’t already be constantly doing that. (Meanwhile Belgium was hoping someone would notice them).
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Funny how pacifists are the first to cry when someone hits them.
Let’s not ruin pacifism, self-defense can be a form of it
pacifism /ˈpasɪfɪz(ə)m/ noun the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable and that all disputes should be settled by peaceful means.
deleted by creator
Pacifism can be both, ending all wars and defending against fascism
How is that funny
And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?
Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!
Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.
Ask Prigozhin whether that shelling actually happened. You swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.
Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.
What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.
Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the “armed groups” shelled themselves.
There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Seems like to you being a lib means not falling for badly researched, one-sided videos?
You didn’t watch the video did you? They don’t mention anything that
All you liberals give cons a lot of shit for being bloodthirsty war hawks but you froth at the mouth at the thought of war too. You’ll look at situations like what’s happening in Gabon and Niger, say “wow the French are fucked and they kind of deserve it for what they did to those countries”, and then develop an amazing blind spot for western imperialism in Eastern Europe.
Obviously this war shouldn’t have happened. Obviously Putin is an asshole. Obviously what’s happening in Ukraine needs to be stopped.
We (the west) made our own monster though.
All you liberals give cons
All this my team, your team rhetoric…
Honest question, but how many times a day do you think about events and try to fit them into one of these two categories? At what point do you start using these terms interchangeably for good and evil?
These days, I try to skip posts from people who crossed that line. Left, right or centre. If someone has limited their mental capacity to binary decisions, it’s not worth arguing with them, because the answer to everything will always be “my team”.
Judging by the tl;dw that video is hitting bingo on this one.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=wjU-ve4Pn4k
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
You should probably judge by the video, you moron
Thanks I’ll watch it when I’m home from work. Right now it looks like it’s just some guy talking, whereas the video I linked only talks about things that are public knowledge. I haven’t watched yours yet though.
Libs gonna lib man…
deleted by creator
Huh? We said the libs said that and the GOP are libs
Frontlines were actually moving, especially in the Eastern Front. Not so much in China and the Pacific, though.
That’s not strictly true. On the short end, there was the six-day war. On the long end, there was the hundred years’ war.
Putin was clearly aiming for the short option, but then I suppose most belligerents usually are.
I’d actually love to see a graph that shows the distribution of lengths of various wars
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
The Anglo-Zanzibar War lasted less than an hour
‘Gunboat diplomacy’ isn’t very diplomatic.
Dude took the low end and said “fuck that we’ll do it twice as fast.”
The good news is I don’t think Russia can continue to sustain these kind of losses for 199 more years.
Neither can Ukraine…
Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.
And those folks ain’t talking.
Someone should go bunker-hunting as a ‘lost urbex enthusiast’ and put them on a map. Maybe some backchannel archive in case they go ‘missing’. Once the list/map goes public, thousands of unmissed tech sociopaths turn to pink mist overnight.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the first things considered in strategizing any armed conflict is whether they want Russia and China to know that we have X or are capable of Y. Russia has shown their hand. If they could do more, they would have by now.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset. Hospitals, schools, churches, shipping centers - they’re all valid targets. If Russia wants a position, they’ll level the entire town. That certainly changes the plans, of anyone thought they would abode by the Geneva Conventions.
All those folks in the 50+ age group that grew up with “Russia is enemy #1” are probably cycling through waves of intense work and prolonged orgasm.
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out. This is even considering that Russia was found to have been paying out bounties on dead American soldiers, or that they had people assassinated in the UK. Certainly it should be a disqualifier that Russia isn’t a true Democracy and had Putin’s political opponents jailed. Two Democracies won’t directly start a conflict against each other, but that doesn’t hold up between Democracies and non-Democracies.
My hope is that as Russia runs out of money and organization to fund overseas psyops, the sheen will wear off.
Putin will only run out of money once the price of oil nosedives.
That won’t happen because Saudi Arabia has been squeezing oil output to keep the price high because they need the money for their countries transformation to a horror Show (different discussion required there) and they basically keep squeezing until the US gives them a whole lot of concessions that they don’t want to…
removed by mod
The ones that haven’t suddenly decided that Russia is our best friend all of a sudden for some reason that I still can’t figure out.
The reason is money. Either they got paid by Putin or they’ve been brainwashed by someone who got paid by Putin.
It has also taught NATO that Russia is still in the barbaric tactics mindset.
Oh those backwards Russians, still stuck in the past, where they were just a bunch of barbarian hordes. I assume the West, by contrast, has developed a civilized kind of warfare, as befitting their superior civilized culture? That’s what you’re saying, right?
The civilized West would never… oh yeah they would and they did, repeatedly, and it was worse actually in e.g. Iraq. So all this “barbarism” shit is just racism with no basis in reality.
Or both sides suck and all war is bad, and no one should attack sovereign countries
Russia is still using barbaric tactics, according to the person I replied to. This implies that barbarism is typical (and backwards) of Russia, like that racist trope about barbaric Mongol hordes. It also implies that someone else (presumably NATO, which they mention) isn’t using barbaric tactics, which is blatantly untrue.
I don’t understand how what you wrote is a addressing my post? What’s your point?
Has Russia been bombing civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine?
Please note, I am asking nothing about NATO or America. I agree, the US has committed atrocities in other countries at war. I’m asking specifically if Russia has bombed civilian apartment buildings in Ukraine.
So it’s not racist to say Russia is still in a barbaric mindset, because they are bombing apartment buildings in Ukraine? Is that it? Even though the way it was phrased implies that barbarism is typical of Russia and its history, and also falsely implies NATO isn’t barbaric and isn’t doing the same thing, and it’s a well-known racist trope?
This person’s comment exhibits the common double standard of the good civilized nations vs. the uncivilized primitives bullshit, which is about the oldest racist narrative there is.
I didn’t say anything about the people. Every Russian person I have met is super nice.
Governments though, they suck. Governments bomb apartment buildings full of people. These particular governments are barbaric.
I think it is important to acknowledge that both the US government and the Russian government are responsible for terrible atrocities. It is not racist to say that.
The Russians have less tactics and capabilities than NATO thought. Now it is a matter of how quickly they can be overwhelmed should it come to it. Their big problem is mid level command.
And what they do have was built and developed by the Soviets.
For sure. Thinking of this war as a giant test ground for defense industry ghouls to experiment on is horrifying
The US has had its weapons used in conflicts for years. Yes, they do what they’re supposed to do. Not much to learn, really.
Then why do you think they’re gathering intel? Surely the situation is very different in Ukraine. A weapon system is context dependent, it doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
Intel is a tool which the US has high capability and it takes many forms. I am sure we share this intel with the Ukrainians
Who is this we? And why are you so sure? I’m not saying you are some guy working for the government I’m just saying you are making shit up and read too much of OSINT twitter so you feel ‘in the know’. You don’t know what intel is being gathered, if that intel even gets out or not. Like why should the US feel compelled to share with Ukraine? Because they are on the same side? From the few statements they seem more interested in using the war to pay off the MIC similar to Afghanistan and it doesn’t seem like any intel was gained over a 20 year period.
I am sure because it is publicly reported that we (the US) does share intelligence with Ukraine. Hope that helps
Not as much intelligence as it shares with discord leaker man. Lots of those docs were classified noforn.
Just another stunning victory of US intelligence.
Lol that’s not how this works. Saying “We share intelligence” is worlds apart from what you want to imply here, again stop being some weird wannabe OSINT guy, at most Ukranians get satellite images which technically is ‘sharing intelligence’ but not what you are trying to imply here.
we (the US)
“we (the US)”
Imagine identifying with the US imperialist world order. They aren’t going to let you wear the boot, no matter how hard you lick
The US has tested its weapons against tribal guerillas, not a peer military.
Either way they work the same.
Judging by the number of western vehicles lost to mines in the last few weeks alone they do not perform the same fighting a peer military with access to large amounts of modern equipment vs ill equipped militias fighting an insurgency
You expect those vehicles will not be damaged by mines huh.
No, but they haven’t faced massive minefields, helicopter gunships, artillery, electronic countermeasures, airstrikes, etc when occupying Iraq or Afghanistan. Fighting guerrillas and fighting a peer army are two entirely different beasts, and we see the proof in more western tanks being lost in 2 months than USA lost in 2 decades in Iraq or Afghanistan
That must be why America keeps losing to farmers on the opposite side of the world.
so, not at all, considering they even lost in Afghanistan
There you go. Time to give Ukraine some AC 130 gun ships. Good suggestion.
What, are there Russian hospitals in need of bombing? C130 can’t operate if there is air defense
They had gunships in Afghanistan and US still lost, not sure I see your point here. Not to mention the Taliban didn’t have close to the anti-aircraft capabilities that the Russian military has. AC-130s work fine for bombing defenseless hospitals, but against a force with radar, electronic countermeasures, anti-aircraft missiles, fighter jets, and all the other tools that a modern military has access to? I think the gunships would not be nearly as effective as you think
Russia has the best air defense in the world. C-130 is a big slow moving target. Even in Afghanistan they operated only at night.
Not really, no.
A butter knife works the same when cutting butter or steel. It still isn’t useful for cutting steel. This is what they’re trying to communicate.
A reaper drone works the same when blowing up random weddings or when flying in airspace with a networked AA system of S300s, S400s, and S500s
Which is to say we know the underlying physics continues to operate the same but the context changes how useful the equipment is, because a butterknife is made for butter and a Reaper is made for blowing up weddings without an air defense network nearby.
I mean … calling Russia’s military a “peer” is a stretch.
I do find these comments entertaining. It reinforces my belief that US hubris is leading to it’s decline. Imagine believing your own lies when its literally your country’s existence on the line.
… K
We clearly have fundamental, serious issues – but you’d have to be completely delusional if “actual millitary strength” is something you think the USA lacks and Russia is anyway comparable. They’re in a stalemate with with a small country using 40 year old western equipment.
The US lost Afghanistan where their enemies had no airsupport and old equipmemt and weren’t being supplied by the global hegemon. They also lost Vietnam which they fought a much smaller less well equipped country.
So it seems you aren’t aware about the $50 billion of military hardware, training, mercenaries, and aid that NATO have provided Ukraine since 2014. Are you being disingeneous for the sake of winning the argument or are you acting in good faith? I need to know whether I should continue to engage or if you’re just trolling/playing dumb.
Is it?
Well that and because its a US proxy war. With Ukrainians being slaughtered to further US goals
Gee…lookee there…an uninformed rant. And what is that goal?
deleted by creator
Under achievement
Fix your attitude first.
Nothing to fix.
Go yell at your stepson you shifty guilty scam artist
two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it’s degrading “our enemy” without costing american lives.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
You’re a monster lmao gtfo
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did
Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.
If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
They rejected world order.
Based.
Lol, lmao even
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want
The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
The ukrainians are being forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving the country. They do not want to fight. The russians have sought peace negotiations several times, NATO-members like the United Kingdom, have come and stopped these negotiations.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
Ah yes, one day evil putler woke up and decided to invade, that’s what happened. He rejected our Good Guys Rules Based Order because he’s just such an evil dude.
“They rejected world order” I think you should be killed like someone in the Bible
The world order where the US is allowed to invade Iraq and kill a million people on a lie? That world order?
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
Yes good thing their escaping tyrannical rule for totally wholesome democratic rule… That bans all opposition parties and bombs their own country for nearly a decade
The Russians have flattened whole cities.
Real “Antifa is burning cities to the ground!” Energy
Just found out what war is. Damn that shit sucks
Who gives a fuck about the money? Hundreds of thousands are dead, and we are close to nuclear annihilation.
You are enthralled to a demon. Wake up and imagine you were marched to the frontlines.
“US Blood”
to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
https://readsettlers.org/ch2.html
long extract from Settlers about the nature of the 1776 revolution
We need to see the dialectical unity of democracy and oppression in developing settler Amerika. The winning of citizenship rights by poorer settlers or non-Anglo-Saxon Europeans is democratic in form. The enrollment of the white masses into new, mass instruments of repression-such as the formation of the infamous Slave Patrols in Virginia in 1727 — is obviously anti-democratic and reactionary. Yet these opposites in form are, in their essence, united as aspects of creating the new citizenry of Babylon. This is why our relationship to “democratic” struggles among the settlers has not been one of simple unity.
This was fully proven in practice once again by the 1776 War of Independence, a war in which most of the Indian and Afrikan peoples opposed settler nationhood and the consolidation of Amerika. In fact, the majority of oppressed people gladly allied themselves to the British forces in hopes of crushing the settlers.
This clash, between an Old European empire and the emerging Euro-Amerikan empire, was inevitable decades before actual fighting came. The decisive point came when British capitalism decided to clip the wings of the new Euro-Amerikan bourgeoisie — they restricted emigration, hampered industry and trade, and pursued a long-range plan to confine the settler population to a controllable strip of territory along the Atlantic seacoast. They proposed, for their own imperial needs, that the infant Amerika be permanently stunted. After all, the European conquest of just the Eastern shores of North America had already produced, by the time of Independence, a population almost one-third as large as that of England and Ireland. They feared that unchecked, the Colonial tail might someday wag the imperial dog (as indeed it has).
…
Like Bacon’s Rebellion, the “liberty” that the Amerikan Revolutionists of the 1770’s fought for was in large part the freedom to conquer new Indian lands and profit from the commerce of the slave trade, without any restrictions or limitations. In other words, the bourgeois “freedom” to oppress and exploit others. The successful future of the settler capitalists demanded the scope of independent nationhood.
But as the first flush of settler enthusiasm faded into the unhappy realization of how grim and bloody this war would be, the settler “sunshine soldiers” faded from the ranks to go home and stay home. Almost one-third of the Continental Army deserted at Valley Forge. So enlistment bribes were widely offered to get recruits. New York State offered new enlistments 400 acres each of Indian land. Virginia offered an enlistment bonus of an Afrikan slave (guaranteed to be not younger than age ten) and 100 acres of Indian land. In South Carolina, Gen. Sumter used a share-the-loot scheme, whereby each settler volunteer would get an Afrikan captured from Tory estates. Even these extraordinarily generous offers failed to spark any sacrificial enthusiasm among the settler masses. (14)
It was Afrikans who greeted the war with great enthusiasm. But while the settler slavemasters sought “democracy” through wresting their nationhood away from England, their slaves sought liberation by overthrowing Amerika or escaping from it. Far from being either patriotic Amerikan subjects or passively enslaved neutrals, the Afrikan masses threw themselves daringly and passionately into the jaws of war on an unprecedented scale — that is, into their own war, against slave Amerika and for freedom.
The British, short of troops and laborers, decided to use both the Indian nations and the Afrikan slaves to help bring down the settler rebels. This was nothing unique; the French had extensively used Indian military alliances and the British extensively used Afrikan slave recruits in their 1756-63 war over North America (called “The French & Indian War” in settler history books). But the Euro-Amerikan settlers, sitting on the dynamite of a restive, nationally oppressed Afrikan population, were terrified — and outraged.
This was the final proof to many settlers of King George III’s evil tyranny. An English gentlewoman traveling in the Colonies wrote that popular settler indignation was so great that it stood to unite rebels and Tories again. (15) Tom Paine, in his revolutionary pamphlet Common Sense, raged against “…that barbarous and hellish power which hath stirred up Indians and Negroes to destroy us.” (16) But oppressed peoples saw this war as a wonderful contradiction to be exploited in the ranks of the European capitalists.
Lord Dunmore was Royal Governor of Virginia in name, but ruler over so little that he had to reside aboard a British warship anchored offshore. Urgently needing reinforcements for his outnumbered command, on Nov. 5, 1775 he issued a proclamation that any slaves enlisting in his forces would be freed. Sir Henry Clinton, commander of British forces in North America, later issued an even broader offer:
I do most strictly forbid any Person to sell or claim Right over any Negroe, the property of a Rebel, who may claim refuge in any part of this Army; And I do promise to every Negroe who shall desert the Rebel Standard, full security to follow within these Lines, any Occupation which he shall think proper. (17)
Could any horn have called more clearly? By the thousands upon thousands, Afrikans struggled to reach British lines. One historian of the Exodus has said: “The British move was countered by the Americans, who exercised closer vigilance over their slaves, removed the able-bodied to interior places far from the scene of the war, and threatened with dire punishment all who sought to join the enemy. To Negroes attempting to flee to the British the alternatives ‘Liberty or Death’ took on an almost literal meaning. Nevertheless, by land and sea they made their way to the British forces.” (18)
The war was a disruption to Slave Amerika, a chaotic gap in the European capitalist ranks to be hit hard. Afrikans seized the time — not by the tens or hundreds, but by the many thousands. Amerika shook with the tremors of their movement. The signers of the Declaration of Independence were bitter about their personal losses: Thomas Jefferson lost many of his slaves; Virginia’s Governor Benjamin Harrison lost thirty of “my finest slaves”; William Lee lost sixty-five slaves, and said two of his neighbors “lost every slave they had in the world”; South Carolina’s Arthur Middleton lost fifty slaves. (19)
Afrikans were writing their own “Declaration of Independence” by escaping. Many settler patriots tried to appeal to the British forces to exercise European solidarity and expel the Rebel slaves. George Washington had to denounce his own brother for bringing food to the British troops, in a vain effort to coax them into returning the Washington family slaves. (20) Yes, the settler patriots were definitely upset to see some real freedom get loosed upon the land.
To this day no one really knows how many slaves freed themselves during the war. Georgia settlers were said to have lost over 10,000 slaves, while the number of Afrikan escaped prisoners in South Carolina and Virginia was thought to total well over 50,000. Many, in the disruption of war, passed themselves off as freemen and relocated in other territories, fled to British Florida and Canada, or took refuge in Maroon communities or with the Indian nations. It has been estimated that 100,000 Afrikan prisoners — some 20% of the slave population — freed themselves during the war.
Mao like prepubesent little girls.
“here is a book that lays out why what you are saying is colonial apologia, with a link to read more if you want to, and the important bits directly quoted for you for your convenience”
“have you considered that somebody who wouldn’t be born for over a hundred years after this is bad?”
what does this have to do with anything?
Department of Naval IntelligenceAmerican revolution was a counterrevolution you dolt. Now go ahead, tell me I “support the British empire” bc you can only think exactly one step ahead.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
Which is why so many nations are smelling the blood in the water and casting off their western neocolonial overlords in Africa right now.
Lmao.
In that there is no US blood is an added advantage.
deleted by creator
Yes, Niger is a harbinger of the future…right
I mean yes, we are literally seeing more military coups in Africa by left wing folks who are quoting beloved anti-colonial icons, making concrete steps toward proletarian democratic elections and walking the walk on panafricanism. Algeria literally just blocked France from transporting troops through their country. Plenty of people are using the Amerikkkan empire and its European vassals being distracted and exhausted to cast off their shackles.
i think we know why you find that idea unpalatable
oh look we found the intern at Langley
there is no US blood
Bazinga
”This is a US proxy war.”
”That’s an uninformed rant!”
…
”This is a US proxy war, and that’s a good thing.”
Proxy War…
a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.
You are saying that the US had a role in instigating this war? What was it? Sounds like Putin’s language to justify his stupidity
The coup that they orchestrated in 2014 with the help of Nazis and Victoria Nuland. https://truthout.org/articles/the-ukraine-mess-that-nuland-made/
Don’t blame us because reality is Marxist
malding that a social platform made by tankies is filled with tankies
Not the sharpest tool in the shed, are we?
Hell yeah dude you should own us by leaving
“Shills” implies we’re being paid and I take offense to that because I wish I were getting paid for this
You just gotta send an email to President xi for your posterbucks. Xxxi@langley.gov
Pretty telling that the new line being fed to NATO worshippers is ‘don’t say anything critical about our objective failures’. This is, ironically, the same message Goebbels pushed when failures began to mount on the eastern front after Stalingrad and then Kursk. As the Soviet steamroller continued to Berlin, the line in the media was ‘it is unpatriotic to say we are losing’. And then they lost.
hasn’t that been the line the whole time?
lol go away tankie lunatic
Smartest liberal counter argument.
kill yourself
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nearly three months since launching a much vaunted counteroffensive using hundreds of billions of dollars of Western military equipment, Ukraine has recaptured more than a dozen villages but has yet to penetrate Russia’s main defences.
Stories in the New York Times, Washington Post and other news organisations last week quoted U.S. and other Western officials as suggesting the offensive was falling short of expectations.
Ukrainian commanders say they are moving slowly on purpose, degrading Russia’s defences and logistics to reduce losses when they finally attack at full strength.
After months of fighting their way through heavy minefields, Ukraine’s forces have finally reached the main Russian defensive lines in recent days, south of the village of Robotyne which they captured last week in Western Zaporizhzhia region.
They are now advancing in an area between the nearby villages of Novopokropivka and Verbove, looking for a way around the anti-tank ditches and rows of concrete pyramids known as dragon’s teeth that form Russia’s main fortifications visible from space.
Russia is also facing the aftermath of a mutiny two months ago by Wagner, a private army that had formed the main attack force of its own winter offensive earlier this year.
The original article contains 801 words, the summary contains 197 words. Saved 75%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Stop, just please, stop.
What are you trying to say?
I want this war to stop.
It’ll stop when Russia leaves.
Edit: anyone who supports Russia is a fascist. Follow your Leader.
Yeah that’s how wars usually end, right? A country leaves and then negotiations start.
Since we’re in imaginationland, how about all ukrainians get a free dolphin?
You’re a fascist. Follow your leader.
Very sound argument. After all it was the civil liberals, western anarchists and debate perverts that convinced Hitler in the market place of ideas that invading Poland was “bad vibes” and so he killed himself from that hard own.
Or was it something else? Nah, after all reality is always the thing you imagine it to be.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=Z7yYxJgHRMY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I’m a fascist because I think people shouldn’t be killed senselessly? Okay.
How do you think the war will end?No, I do not support the fascist regime of Ukraine. Why would I follow their leader?
Realistically, how do you think the war will end?
I too would like your prediction on how this war will end
Answer my question coward
Do you have like a little piece of notebook paper you keep track of all your pending dunks on? You do the rounds every few hours? o7 I am in awe
How will this war end then?
Go back to your Fox News with that bullshit
And if Ukraine can’t win militarily (which they clearly can’t), how does that happen?
Imagine thinking Russia will win with 0 proof. How does daddy Putin’s boot taste?
How good is your reading comprehension you fucking idiot, or are you just following headlines and clapping like a cymbal monkey toy?
Youre in a thread of an article about the failed Ukrainian counteroffensive. I will now imply you are having sexual relations with a man as a negative thing.
- redditors picking fights in comment threads below a post they couldn’t spend 2 minutes reading
This article from a western source is literally about the failure of the big counter offensive
Your comment makes me want to see a fan cut of Captain America where he just gets the shit beaten out of him and his limbs ripped off and he dies and every five minutes “I can do this all day” but it never turns around and he fucking dies. He never appears to make a come back. He just keeps getting his ass kicked and never stops saying the line. Except it’s not his ass getting kicked, it’s some random children he took off the street and forced to be child soldiers or he’d kill them. And he just keeps saying “I can do this all day” while tens of thousands of people keep getting killed and not once for any reason or goal that progress is made towards. Just tens of thousands of dead bodies every month. “I can do this all day” except he’s not even there he’s on an internet forum. It’s still tens of thousand of dead bodies but not his. And he’ll never give up. But he’ll never get any closer to winning. Just death to countless people who aren’t him. He can do it all day. And every time he says it you can tell he feels really cool and badass. He’s Captain America. He doesn’t quit just because it looks bad.
Do you think it is realistic that Russia will unilaterally pull out? The war will end when Russia leaves, but Russia isn’t going to leave until they are pushed out, negotiations are had, or Ukraine is destroyed. The first possibility is becoming increasingly more unlikely, and the last is something that nobody should want
That leaves negotiations. I think Ukraine should come to the table while they still have some leverage, which is decreasing every week that they throw their men into the meat grinder without meaningful gains.
It doesn’t leave only negotiations. Russia tried for 10+ years in Afghanistan. The US the same, there and in Vietnam. There is such as giving up and going home. That’s the “win” a small state can inflict on a large one. I don’t think that’s where Ukraine and Russia is headed, but there’s a quick for Ukraine and a slow “win” for Ukraine.
So in your mind there’s no situation where ukraine doesn’t win this war?
For sure there’s a real risk Ukraine isn’t winning this war. But there’s never been a war where there’s absolute certainty one side will win, until we get to the “downfall” times.
Yeah why negotiate now while we still have hundreds of thousands of lives to throw into the meat grinder.
Yes, that’s exactly Putin’s reasoning. Glad you figured that out.
Wait, so your ideal is instead of negotiations, in the same vein as Afghanistan, Ukraine experiences this horrible war for another 9 years and then becomes a state ruled by the fighters involved in the war with the most extremist far right ideology rule it as a theocracy? To be clear that ideology in this case is Nazism.
You don’t sound like an ally of the Ukrainian people.
Damn we don’t see them on blahaj :<
Has blahaj banned hexbear?
So has beehaw.
Blahaj is an alt-right uber conservatives instance that has attacked and libeled anyone further left than Ronald Regan.
Lucky
* Scared
Ignorant
I can always tell when I’m browsing Lemmy from my lemm.ee account vs lemmy.world by the sheer number of tankies spouting nonsense.
the most intellectually advanced liberal has logged on
Any actual rebuttal or just gonna roll out the usual libshit jab and run along? America has blood on its hands for a lot of things, it found out once and might find out again if it isn’t careful.
Make yourself like the USSR and make yourself scarce.
Imagine being the kind loser who thinks that Russia today is preferable to USSR. 😂
What exactly do you think it found out?
A shitload of oil
That if you spend decades destabilising a region in the name of oil, occasionally the people that are getting shit on will do something about it.
Okay but how did the US find out?
What do you think 9/11 was?
I think 9/11 was a terrorist attack by a fundamentalist Islamic terrorist organization motivated by Bin Laden issuing fatāwā against America for stationing troops in Saudi Arabia and for supporting Israel. I think Bin Laden stating that he believed that it was a justified attack because of America’s support for Israel points pretty solidly at the motivation behind the attacks:
“…it was a response to injustice, aimed at forcing America to stop its support for Israel…”
Also this from his video where he admits that he was behind the attacks and says that he was motivated by Israel bombing Lebanon
“…it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted…”
Interested in why you think oil had anything to do with 9/11. The destabilizing countries for oil stuff mostly came after 9/11. Middle Eastern hatred for America was mainly fueled by our support for Israel, and partially because Saudi Arabia had American military bases. Oil was not an interest to these terrorist groups until after Iraq.
Sources for those quotes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1729882.stm
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2004/11/1/full-transcript-of-bin-ladins-speech
America was there for the oil, the destability came as a result and that came well before 9/11. Anyway, it’d be great if they’d stop meddling in everyone’s business for their own selfish reasons and that includes the endless NATO sabre rattling under the guise of fReEdOm.
Cold weather begins to hit in October. It’s not just “slow”, it’s over.
Can’t forget the fall mud either, rasputitsa ain’t no joke
Is climate change an American plot to change Russian weather so that they will finally lose a land war?
it’s joever
You know what? I never thought I’d say this but I’m with Ukraine on this one.
This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a “win” so that they’d stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.
The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.
Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.
This got an upvote?
Are you open to proposing your master plan?
Ukraine has been invaded. Are you suggesting they do not fight back?
NATO is not war. No NATO country has been attacked. Engaging against Russia directly would put NATO at war with a nuclear power. I cannot imagine that this is your plan.
Not just “the West”, but everybody is on the sidelines as far as direct engagement goes. Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can. Some to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Most have imposed crippling sanctions. So. “sidelines” is a bit misleading from that perspective.
Even Russia’s allies are “on the sidelines”. You certainly do not see much overt support from China. They have even maintained ( in fact stepped-up ) diplomatic relation with Ukraine.
Or are you trying to imply that the underlying cause of everything here is something other than Russia’s continued invasion? Everybody could truly go back to the sidelines if Russia just left.
The only other path is for Ukraine to win. Are you supporting that or not?
For the copypasta. You really distilled a lot of liberal brainworms down with good comedic timing.
It’s so fucking funny when you consider that this is in response to a post saying Ukraine has a point.
Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia. It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war. It could have negotiated for peace while the Russians were pulling back after its previously more successful counter offensives.
But each time its leaders ignored the off ramp to peace and pursued delusional maximalist goals, egged on by promises of EU and NATO membership which even Zelensky acknowledged publically were just carrots dangled in front of Ukraine.
Now there’s no pathway to any sort of Ukrainian victory and the most realistic scenarios all involve Ukraine permanently giving up Donbas and Crimea. The only difference between the likely outcome now and just giving them a referendum in 2014 is a couple hundred thousand Ukrainian graves.
I’d respect the EU and NATO more if they had actually followed through with their promises to Ukraine instead of this Charlie Brown football bullshit.
I have no actual argument so I’ll just say Russians are going to rape your mom
Libs just love making shit up, do you even know what Russia is demanding?
Go volunteer if you think it’s this much of a moral fight.
Go out and fight Russia yourself and after that you can propose that Ukrainians should keep being drafted against their will on your behalf, coward.
“They could have won by surrendering so many times”
It rules that libs constantly appeal to public opinion of people in Taiwan as an argument for why China should let it be independent but as soon as people from a Western aligned country want to exercise that same self-determination its “surrendering” to let them have a referendum.
Totally an intellectually coherent ideology and not just “our team (good), your team (bad)”.
Go volunteer then
Your comment makes me want to see a fan cut of Captain America where he just gets the shit beaten out of him and his limbs ripped off and he dies and every five minutes “I can do this all day” but it never turns around and he fucking dies. He never appears to make a come back. He just keeps getting his ass kicked and never stops saying the line. Except it’s not his ass getting kicked, it’s some random children he took off the street and forced to be child soldiers or he’d kill them. And he just keeps saying “I can do this all day” while tens of thousands of people keep getting killed and not once for any reason or goal that progress is made towards. Just tens of thousands of dead bodies every month. “I can do this all day” except he’s not even there he’s on an internet forum. It’s still tens of thousand of dead bodies but not his. And he’ll never give up. But he’ll never get any closer to winning. Just death to countless people who aren’t him. He can do it all day. And every time he says it you can tell he feels really cool and badass. He’s Captain America. He doesn’t quit just because it looks bad.
If he holds out long enough, the Ghost of Kiev will return with the Infinity Gauntlet and Thanos Snap half the Russian armed forces away.
Neither of these things he describes are surrendering:
It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war.
In fact both of them would have prevented Russia from annexing donbass. They would be independent territories that would act as a buffer state between the two countries.
I was coming at it from the sense of both outcomes being the same (Ukraine losing Donbas) but in one scenario Ukraine “wins” because it doesn’t get bombed and lose hundreds of thousands of people, but you raise a great point. There was a chance that letting Donbas go in 2014 would have resulted in a fairly neutral buffer with Russia.
There was a point where the DPR and LPR were just seeking autonomy within Ukraine to speak Russian and decide local issues but the hardliners in Kiev decided to sic Nazis on them instead.
Hundred of thousands is sp much higher than any source I can find. On both sides of the conflict.
Hell in 2014 just granting more regional autonomy could have been viable (although the Russians would probably also push for travel rights that would allow easier logistics to Crimea)
Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia.
I mean they tried to but they got couped by the US for their troubles.
But are they supporting Russia through money or tanks or drones or intelligence? No? Then they’re on the sidelines. Like they said.
Europe is not the whole world
Shocking
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
Zelenksy tried to surrender to prevent further deaths, and Boris Johnson refused to let that meeting happen because NATO isn’t finished using Ukranians as crash test dummies.
Zelenskyy tried to surrender and Boris Johnson stopped him?! Ooooookay… He maaaybe (all “unnamed” sources) expressed an opinion, which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.
To cast that as “Ukraine was stopped from surrendering” is just obscene … and yet another Kremlin talking point.
which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.
If the UK is convinced that you can’t negotiate with dictators, how does the UK keep entering into arms sales agreements with Saudi Arabia? Do the contracts just appear out of thin air at BAE?
Sigh.
I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries. We had plenty of relations with Russia before they decided to invade Ukraine and they were a dictatorship before. We have plenty of relationships with China now and they are a de facto dictatorship.
The Saudis used their British weapons to bomb Yemen and create one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes in recent memory. The UK sold weapons to Saudi before, during, and after the Saudi involvement in Yemen.
Perhaps Russia should have merely bombed Ukraine to the point of starvation. Then they’d be a good dictatorship that the UK would be happy to carry out business negotiations with.
Don’t be ridiculous
Ukrainians are white
That’s only acceptable when it’s brown, asian, or south american people who’s country you’re destroying.
What’s going on in Yemen is incredibly complicated. I’m not condoning everything Saudi Arabia is doing there, far from it, but to call it out as a good vs evil war is frankly a simpleton view. Saudi is bad there. Everyone is bad there. It’s a huge mess. But I think it’s important to recognise that the Saudis aim is to restore order in a neighbourhood country, to prevent Iranian influence from growing and to suppress violent Islamic fundamentalism.
le sigh
deleted by creator
Ironic that you accuse others of reapting Kremlin talking points while vomiting the most generic pro Nato shit
They get their opinions straight from the white house and brussels.
You’re not very smart.
I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries
Yemen isn’t a country because it isn’t white enough for you
Russia and Ukraine may have agreed on a tentative deal to end the war in April, according to a recent piece in Foreign Affairs.
“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”
The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.
Foreign Affairs is a Kremlin propaganda outlet now?
“Reportedly” means “others report”.
And your sources for your beliefs are where?
Or do only people you disagree with require sources, so that way you can keep gleefully believing whatever the fucking and spewing it everywhere you go
Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia
Hmm let’s look at the source on that: Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukranian language paper headquartered in Kyiv, owned by a Ukranian investment company also headquartered in Kyiv.
Kremlin propaganda!
Sigh.
You do understand how propaganda works, right? It works by zooming in on molehills until they appear like mountains. So while I wouldn’t rule out that Johnson the Idiot said something unwise to Zelensky government, I also don’t automatically think that it means Zelenski was “forced to not give up”.
Foreign Affairs is certainly propaganda, just not of the Kremlin variety.
Lol exactly, it’s the last place you’d expect to find anything challenging the U.S. narrative.
Considering there’s people in this thread complaining were spreading Russian propaganda by posting a press release FROM UKRAINE I’m starting to think their accusations may not be entirely in good faith.
What part of this reads as a “surrender” to you?
It’s not how I’d characterize it personally, but it’s what that other person was referring to.
Ah, all good then.
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
This has literally never been true in any war ever. Foreign occupations rarely tend to be bloodless and I doubt a Russian one would have been an exception. At no point were any of the peace talks about Ukraine’s surrender – only renouncing it’s NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Russian troops, as per:
“In the weeks ahead of Johnson’s April 9 visit, high-level diplomatic talks held in Belarus and Turkey had failed to yield a diplomatic breakthrough, though reports in mid-March indicated that Russian and Ukrainian delegations “made significant progress” toward a 15-point peace deal that would involve Ukraine renouncing its NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Moscow’s troops.”
At no point was surrender on the table - that would have likely lead to Zelenksy’s detention and execution in the early days of the invasion.
I don’t think Zelensky was too keen on capitulating to Vladimir Putin’s demands to destroy his country, after sending in GRU hit squads to kill him and his family multiple times at the outset of the war.
What the fuck kind of a lazy ass response is this?
"It’s not clear how Zelenskyy himself responded to Johnson’s reported push to halt peace talks. On the same day of the British prime minister’s arrival in Kyiv, Zelenskyy told the Associated Press in an interview that “no one wants to negotiate with a person or people who tortured this nation.” “It’s all understandable,” he continued. “And as a man, as a father, I understand this very well.” But, Zelenskyy added, “we don’t want to lose opportunities, if we have them, for a diplomatic solution.”
Also the only time the word “surrender” shows up is in a quote here where it was the west telling Zelensky to surrender and flee.
You’re fucking capable of more reasoning than that, surely. After all, you have a brain that can think and challenge disagreeing views, right?
You really ought to try more and maybe, just maybe realise you may not be in the right here. But hey, you can always try to justify your views.
Do you know even how many countries there are?
Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can.
Always the same map
new emojiRight, but it’s not like every country not filled out in green is actively supporting Russia in the same way. In terms of countries supplying Russia the way the US, NATO, and the EU are supplying Ukraine, I’m pretty sure it’s just Iran and North Korea. The US has largely failed to isolate Russia the way it wanted to, but Russia hasn’t been able to get the kind of support from its allies that Ukraine has (like, unless there have been some Chinese Type 99s tanks spotted in operation by the Russians that I hadn’t heard about, I’m not exactly tracking the front every day).
Even Saudi Arabia is supporting Russia and they’re an American ally
In what way? I think a lot of people are acting like anyone not actively sending arms or money to Ukraine must therefore be “supporting” Russia. Has the Saudi Arabian Kingdom given any weapons to Russia? Have they given any loans to plug the holes in the national budget while the country engages in open warfare? Or are they just viewing a European conflict as irrelevant to their own aims and goals?
they have timed movements in the oil market to be more supportive of Russian economic needs
but Russia hasn’t been able to get the kind of [material] support from its allies that Ukraine has
It hasn’t needed to. Ukraine wouldn’t be a functional state at all by this point were it not for the tens of billions of dollars in aid as well as all the military equipment slowly depleting the west. Russia on the other hand, has been doing quite well in holding it’s own economically despite the sanctions and in holding the literal defensive line against all the NATO weaponry. It’s a nonsensical comparison to make.
It hasn’t needed to
They’ve taken arms and supplies from Iran and are currently negotiating with the DPRK. Yes, Russia is bigger and can theoretically out-last Ukraine in a war of attrition on a 1:1 basis, but you shouldn’t be hoping for something that prolongs the war.
It’s a nonsensical comparison to make.
So is using a map of the countries supporting Ukraine to insinuate that the all the other countries must therefore be on Russia’s side.
but you shouldn’t be hoping for something that prolongs the war./
lol, what do you think I’m “hoping” for? Stating the fact that Russia can easily do what it has been doing indefinitely (but Ukraine cannot) has nothing to do with my hopes.
So is using a map of the countries supporting Ukraine to insinuate that the all the other countries must therefore be on Russia’s side.
No one ever did any such thing, just noted that support comes in many forms other than military equipment, which Russia has mostly already covered for itself, even if it buys drone parts from Iran. Unlike Ukraine which now relies wholly and entirely on outside help for all of its material need. You changed the goalposts for what “support” means to make it sound like only military equipment counts as support, which is foolish because it isn’t what Russia needs. You’re just trying to move the goalposts all over the place to make it seem like you have some kind of valid point, but you don’t. Even if countries are not sending unneeded tanks, Russia still has plenty of support all over the world, mostly from countries who rightly recognize this as a struggle against the imperialism of the US and NATO which is beneficial to any anti-imperialists (including any actual leftists, even though so many western “leftists” drink deeply of their overlord’s propaganda).
Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can.
lmao here i am living in a 200 million people country where nobody gives a single fuck about ukraine
even more political groups and discussions rarely involve ukraine except when lula decides to own zelensky in some way, no one here cares about nato’s proxy war
even more political groups and discussions rarely involve ukraine except when lula decides to own zelensky in some way, no one here cares about nato’s proxy war
I mean why should they? Brazil as a country (you mention lula, so) isn’t in NATO so it doesn’t have an ideological reason to support Russia or Ukraine in the matter. There’s nothing to be gained geographically for Brazil either, since whoever controls Kyiv doesn’t directly impact any strategic concerns for Brazil afaik.
You say no one cares, so while I think most people in Canada and US hope that Ukraine “wins”, does that mean apathy in that regard or would you say most people are passively hoping Russia achieves its war goals?
i think most people here are just apathetic towards it, yea
as for smaller, more involved groups, you have the english-speaking libs and the middle class which are just nyt-brained to the core (on every single issue, so you can guess their opinions), and the communists and PT libs (with opinions that are pretty close to ours: “war is bad, putin is shit, and we should stay away from the whole thing, but hopefully the end result of this one is a weaker, and not a stronger, american/nato empire”)
the communists and PT libs (with opinions that are pretty close to ours: “war is bad, putin is shit, and we should stay away from the whole thing, but hopefully the end result of this one is a weaker, and not a stronger, american/nato empire”)
All sounds very reasonable, tbh even the libs and middle-class positions make sense to me if they are plugged into the same media as US libs.
deleted by creator
from the moment they realized Kyiv wouldn’t be lost in a week
Goes back way longer than that, at least to 2014.
Goes back longer to 2003 Orange protests, of course CIA backed.
Goes back further, all the way to 1953, project aerodynamic. Also CIA backed
Goes back all the way to 882 AD, founding of Kyivan Rus’. Also CIA backed.
What does the CIA have to do with the founding of the three fraternal slavic peoples?
deleted by creator
Not the correct response to say to those who hold the purse strings to your war chest. Especially one particular country whose political tide can turn and drown you.
“The Ghost of Kyiv is still training with the F-35 you sent us,” President Zelenskyy told a Pentagon advisor who criticized the counter-offensive. “This is your people’s job. Either shut up, or provide better instructors.”
Wow. Zelensky isn’t playing. He means business
I’m sorry to say that you’ve fallen for the classic blunder. Assuming the Hexbear you’re responding to is not doing a bit. We’ve all been there, don’t worry
Ukraine also hasn’t received any F 35s, it’s a bit.
I wish I knew what the shortfalls are in the training program.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.
It’s not supporting Russia to be critical of one-sided narratives or to call for peace for the sake of minimizing loss of life.
So you’d want peace by Ukraine giving up its territory?
How about peace talks that involve Russia giving back all Ukrainian lands (including Crimea) and pulling all troops out.
Why stop there, how about demanding Russia provide every Ukrainian with a talking unicorn buddy?
I live in reality and when I say I want peace it means I believe in negotiating based on realistic expectations.
Shouldn’t the people of Crimea get to decide whether they want to live under Kyiv’s rule?
You mean the Russians that Russia settled there? Curious what you think about the Uighurs getting to break away a country from China.
Most of the people I’m talking about were either born there or have lived there for longer than Ukraine has existed as a state. Those people should be the ones in charge of the fate of Crimea, regardless of their ethnicity. I don’t believe in blood and soil nationalism where only certain ethnicities get to be full citizens.
By “the Uighers” I assume you’re talking about Xinjiang? The most serious separatist movement there is the Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement, the US recognized these guys as a terrorist group in 2002. The US continued to recognize them as a terrorist group until 2020, when the US decided that it would be more politically convenient for them to not be terrorists anymore. The overall populace supports the central government. It’s 90+% approval for China overall, I can’t find a breakdown by region. If the people of Xinjiang were to lose faith in the central government and decided to go their own way then I would support them. The important part is that is has to be the people, not terror groups, not US-backed NGOs, and not US-backed protest movements, that support the separatism movement.
Crimea was annexed with zero shots fired. Maybe Ukraine should respect the voices of the people living in eastern ukraine.
They mean the people that live in the region. What kind of fucking shit nationalism is this? Are you a leftist or a nationalist?
Russia is welcome to GTFO at any time.
A compromise now is bad for russia, russia basically has to be able to extort Western Europe to not to be crippled for decades. Germany is apparently working to that end now.
It’s so fucking funny when the geopolitics understanders who have been drip-fed NATO propaganda state the clear opposite of reality and think they made an insightful comment.
Russia has all but won the military conflict, as has been made clear by this utter failure of a “counteroffensive.” Russia is doing better economically than before the SMO, despite the supposed economic wunderwaffen sanctions that only backfired and hurt NATO countries. Russia has only gained support by most of the rest of the world and has showed the global south that the US/NATO are indeed paper tigers. Russia has all the leverage now. So yes, for Russia to compromise right now would be bad for them because they don’t need to compromise, they can keep going as they have been and eventually have their demands met, or Ukraine/NATO can recognize they’ve lost and make a bid for peace by acquiescing to Russia’s demands before more lives are needlessly lost.
Ukraine on the other hand will be crippled for decades regardless of how things pan out. Ukraine is now deeply indebted to Western countries, has already had all national assets sold off, has had a major chunk of its working-age population killed or maimed, and is beholden to a fascist, nazi-worshipping government.
As for Germany, yeah they have been working to the end of hobbling themselves for decades too by allowing their remaining industrial capacity to be completely gutted, kowtowing to their US masters that bombed their infrastructure to prevent them ever again getting oil from ‘The Bad Country,’ they have irreparably removed nuclear power as an option even as they’re facing an impending energy crisis (in large part because of aforementioned no-oil-from-bad-country), and are right now also sliding towards right wing populism.
The war was already going on before Russia sent troops in.
And that makes it okay for them to escalate it, how?
Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire. Russia escalated further by sending in troops. I didn’t say it’s “okay,” but the blame isn’t just on their side.
If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict? Because I’d like to condemn Russian escalation, but it’s a little hard for me to do so if I don’t have an answer to that question.
Ukraine escalated by violating the ceasefire.
Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I’m always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.
If Russia wanted to ensure the safety of the people of Donbas (which is a big if tbf), what should they have done differently, at any point leading up to the conflict?
If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like “Come across the border and we’ll set you up with a Russian passport”.
They did do that. My coworkers aunt was finally granted Russian citizenship and was ecstatic. They granted citizenship to a number of refugees in the war.
Which one(s)? There were so many from 2014 onwards that I lost track. I’m always skeptical anytime one side gets all the blame for violating a ceasefire.
Minsk II was the one I was referring to, but it’s a fair point.
If it really is about the people of Donbas and not annexing the land itself, they could have done what every country is supposed to do when the safety of people in a region is jeopardized – open their borders to refugees and asylum seekers. It would piss off Ukraine, but they could have just been like “Come across the border and we’ll set you up with a Russian passport”.
Ok, let me rephrase that then. Do you believe that the people have Donbas have a right to self-determination and representation in government, and that that right would include having some possible roadmap to joining Russia, or should they be forced to either go along with whatever the new government wanted or abandon their homes and flee the country? Because I think that a lot of this mess could’ve be avoided if Ukraine had simply given them a referendum, but instead they banned opposition parties, which says to me that they knew how the people there would vote.
Right, Ukraine was fighting corruption. Russia entered on the side of… corruption.
“Fighting corruption” is an interesting way to describe sustained artillery bombardments of civilian targets.
Ukraine also crucified little boys in pants. The info from the same source
Fighting this corruption:
I’m not sure what that has to do with shelling cities, are you suggesting he was hiding in one of the buildings or what?
Hoo boy wait til you see what Zelenskyy was up to.
Yes, but the liberal pro-EU protestors got sidelined by literal neo-Nazis. The following President was basically handpicked by the US Ambassador. There’s plenty of western media from 2015-2021 about the integration of Azov into the Ukrainian military structure, the rehabilitation of World War II collaborators, and the suppression of the Russian language. The people of the East are, in principle, just as entitled to wish to join Russia as western Ukraine is to join the EU.
Ohh won’t someone think of the poor invading war criminals!
History started in feb 2022
It’s not so one-sided as you think. Ukraine used civilians as human shields https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/07/19/zrjy-j19.html
? We have tho? My country has sent like $80 billion dollars so far to the invading war criminals.
Free the Donbass
Ukrainians are dying too, including ones drafted against their will. Maybe you should fight in their place before asking them to die on your behalf.
I think it’s bad for thousands of ukrainians to die in war they cannot win, which they do not want to fight, purely so NATO can accomplish some esoteric geopolitical goal, but that’s just me
I’d say they’re doing much better than you hoped
They’re literally running out of bodies dude
They’ll slow their offensive to match. But every invader they can kill, every tank they destroy is one the next guys won’t have to fight.
That’s my point. What next guys.
Why would I hope people die? And in what way is Ukraine doing well? Even Western sources agree the counteroffensive is a failure. It has yet to break thru the Russian lines
Why do you think Ukrainians don’t want to defend their country?
If you suggest they better surrender asap because Russia has a bigger army, who do you think should be next?
Because they’re banned from leaving and are being forcibly conscripted. If they wanted to fight it would not be necessary to ban them from leaving (trying to flee conscription) and it would not be necessary to forcibly conscript them.
I think they should surrender because the Ukrainians being forced to fight obviously do not want to fight, and because they have no chance of winning, so this is just senseless.
Do you believe the Russian soldiers are volunteers?
No they’re also conscripted, but we’re discussing Ukraine which is checks notes a different country, specifically a country which is losing people at an alarming rate.
BRICS. Even if they don’t necessarily support Russia it may just be an opportunity to take shots at the West.
It’s a whole subculture. I don’t know, I can think of weirder conspiracy theories with a following.
Go back to your Fox News, conservative ass
removed by mod
Awww, the alt-right asshat is sad and resorting to using ableist terms derived from misusing medical diagnosis
removed by mod
At least I’m not an ableist conservative ass
deleted by creator
Hexbear never criticizes Russia except for all the times we criticize Russia https://hexbear.net/post/278334
Tankies.
You rang?
Imagine being proud of a t34. Oof
T34s were part of the army that defeated nazi Germany. Cope and seethe.
deleted by creator
Your username is literally stuka. Also, remember when Germany had their asses destroyed by the red army? That was funny.
Haha, you think I’m gonna defend nazis? Nah, they were worse than the soviets, but not by much. You tankied are about equivalent to neo nazis in my book
You named yourself after a Nazi dive bomber.
Tankies.
I am very smart
Enjoy your servitude in the crumbling empire
Deride us as woke next.
Why would anyone do that? Wokeness is rad and cool, while tankies love to do fascist apologia, which is highly unwoke
Projection,Liberals have always supported nazis against “tankies”
“My terminally online movement is not full of fascists and useful idiots parroting fascist propaganda because of, uhm, history” Yes, tell me again about the freikorps while every day I see another hazoid being besties with Nazis, or being a fascist themselves.
Love how you call me terminally online while your argument for why i am a facist because of some random Haz fan. Also History is irrelevant now?
“Sure Liberals have supported facists everytime but have you considerd Haz”
“Tankies” fought alongside every anti colonial moments from Angola to Vietnam.
While Liberals were to busy supporting far right shitholes like Chile Isreal South Vietnam South Korea
I don’t know if you’re a fascist, I’m currently not interested enough to go checking.
how you call me terminally online
Because you’re on Lemmy defending legacy of a pejorative identifier when confronted with the fact that the modern online tankie community has produced a number of fascist-aligned notable persons over the last years, and keeps spreading and regurgitating fascist propaganda because of the common alignment against the West.
The history is important. In this conversation, history is irrelevant. Stop making it about your honor
Oh look, calling communists fascists
Surely people who do that aren’t supportive of double genocide theory, which Jewish holocaust scholars condemn as carrying water for nazism.
Every time I criticize tankies they:
- Lie about what I said
- Pretend I’m talking about all communists. If I wanted to do so, I would use the term “communists”. But I don’t see a reason to attack the group I myself belong to
- Try to “no U” with irrelevant insinuations
Oh, which successful communists are you talking about?
Also, double genocide theory being holocaust trivialization still applies as it refers to calling the USSR fascist, if you think it is an irrelevant insuniation take it up with the Jewish holocaust scholars.
As I said to the person below, learn reading comprehension or fuck off. I don’t want to engage in a conversation when I’m repeatedly being gaslit on what I said.
Non-sequitur, I have nothing to reply to
Literally a direct reply to the exact thing you said
Please learn reading comprehension
Hexbear.net is a Russian nationalist instance… They’ve grown up under Putin’s cencorship and state media brainwashing.
Lmao new tagline dropped.
No one on hexbear supports Russia, it’s a neoliberal hellscape that’s somehow even worse than the us on LGBTQ rights. We just dont uncritically consume state department propaganda.By no one, I assume you mean everyone, including the Russian troll bots?
Get out of your bubble. The majority of the world supports Russia. It’s an uncommon view in Europe/USA, but common everywhere else.
Also, being anti NATO expansion doesn’t mean you support Russia. That is a reductive world view.
Regardless of how many despots find Putin’s approach appealing, it remains fundamentally wrong.
despots
Lol racist libs, amirite? Idiot.
Libs just can’t help expose themselves
Lol the thing I just did but laughing it off like it’s ridiculous to say haha
Who said anything about despots? These are opinions of people, not rulers. Citizens of Africa, Asia, South America have suffered under US hegemony, so they view the Russian State different than you do.
The world isn’t as simple as Russia bad, US good.
O rly? Because I thought things were simple. I, like everyone who isn’t already fully on team hexbear, am an idiot. Please cite your sources.
At least you can admit it
Have you even read these?
Just one example:
Nearly half (46%) globally said that the European Union, United States and Nato were doing too little to assist Ukraine, while 11% said they are doing too much
Sure, for what it’s worth I could concede that a global majority might approve of support for Ukraine according to this data. Looking at raw data from: https://www.allianceofdemocracies.org/initiatives/the-copenhagen-democracy-summit/dpi-2023/
That figure may not be accurate however, especially because I can’t see that they computed a weighted global total by population. They extrapolate to obtain each “nationally representative result” by taking into account the respondents’ age, gender and education to mitigate selection bias. I have my doubts about extrapolating like that, but okay. The main problem is when you check the global total, it’s just an unweighted average of all nations.
Highlighted in orange: Top - unweighted average of all nations, Bottom - reported figure from the authorEach country has ~1000 respondents, so there isn’t a proportional representation of each country based on its population - small countries (mostly imperial core, as it happens) have an outsized effect on the average.
Yet among the 6.3 billion who live in the world’s remaining 136 countries, the opposite is the case – with 70% of people feeling positively towards China and 66% towards Russia.
Or in other words, the majority of the world supports Russia.
Weird how they ask for sources then never respond. Almost as if they’re just arguing in bad faith and trying to waste time.
It may take them sometime to digest, especially if they had a marvel movie USA good Russia/China bad worldview.
Hopefully they grow from the knowledge.
I, like everyone who isn’t already fully on team hexbear, am an idiot
did they fix the emoji problem yet?
FREUDIAN SLIP
Please cite your sources.
What a surprise, a childish dipshit.
All you’re doing is insulting people. This behavior is why
is a necessity.Source?
You sure are
Why is the west not despots but the rest of the world is?
Well thankfully most of the powerful (economically and militarily) nations support Ukraine. You’re the one in a bubble.
So people in the developing world don’t get an opinion because their country is poor and weak?
I wish we would just go ahead and give ATACMs. It would certainly speed things up.
Zurely zis wunderwaffe will defeat zose orcs
Most anglophones have a nazi conception of how to win wars because their governments asked the defeated nazis for advice on how to win wars and that ideology was integrated and trickled down like piss onto the masses.
I wish they would just go ahead and negotiate a peace
I wish invaders would just get the hell out. Call it tactical retreat, ceasefire, whatever
Yes that’s usually how wars work, right? You leave and then you negotiate.
If we’re being idealistic then I wish everybody would just put down their arms all over the world and sing kumbaya
I think that once the F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field. I assume we are giving them jdams so they will be capable of striking hundreds of miles into occupied territory.
Aren’t there only a handful of Uke pilots that knew english well enough to do the training? I’m all for sending Ukraine whatever they ask for, but I doubt F-16s will turn the tide
The F-16 will be able to sniff out AA and other ground targets from far away. It will also allow Nato to gift more advanced missiles like JDAM. https://youtu.be/8G7fr3MonQY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/8G7fr3MonQY
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I think that once the
HIMARS,BRADLEY,LEOPARD,STORM SHADOW,CLUSTER MUNITIONS, F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle fieldfast-forward 6 months
I think that once the F22 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
I think that once the F35 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
I think that once the LGM-30G MINUTEMAN III NUCLEAR ICBM training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
So 10 years?
I’m following the combat activities (the actual combat, not high level strategic stuff). It’s all mines, mines, mines and then some trench warfare.
No amount of ATACMS can do anything about that. You still have to advance slowly, figure out where the mines are, clean them up or move around them and then take the trenches.
Drones can do a whole lot more good for a whole lot less.
r/combatfootage, r/ukrainewarvideoreport, r/ukrainerussiareport
/r/combatfootage on reddit. But you can also do it on twitter by following OSINT accounts (and you can combine the two). I just couldn’t deal with the constant twitter BS anymore. They both mostly have “second hand” sources. First hand are telegram accounts, but I rather receive it filtered and sorted by votes, so I never went that far.
There’s also a few Lemmy communities but they either are completely Ukrainian or have very little post activity compared to Combatfootage.
BooOOOOoooo
“drones AND f16 and ATACMS”
Yaaay
Bro, can you please talk to me like I’m a normal human being?
I’m sure whoever manufactures those is excited by that prospect too. But they’ve got to get through all the old stock first. Its a military industrial complex clearning house event
Drink Putin’s bathwater to have 0.1% chance of victory.
Speed up the end of the world maybe. US only hope is revolving Russia or escalation to direct conflict.
