Logline
La’An travels back in time to twenty-first-century Earth to prevent an attack which will alter humanity’s future history—and bring her face to face with her own contentious legacy.
Written by David Reed
Directed by Amanda Row
Note: This is a second attempt, as technical difficulties were preventing people from seeing the original discussion post. Apologies to the people who were able to comment in the original.
So far, it’s my favourite episode of the season.
I gotta say, it wasn’t my favorite. The save baby hitler plot fell flat for me. Kirks death scene was both predictable and rushed. I usually like time travel episodes AND I was looking forward to a La’an-heavy episode, so I’m a bit disappointed.
Also really starting to miss Pike? Kinda weird.
Carol Kane’s Pelia continues to make me smile, she is a delight. Possibly the first reference to poutine in star trek? Also a Denobulan sighting! Yay!
I agree about Pelia! Also Iiiii think I must be bad at TV tropes because I did not see Kirk dying until the final second of him smiling at La’an after inviting the Romulan lady to find out if he was bluffing lol.
So, does a genetic engineering lab now have the corpse of a man from the future with all the future vaccinations, immunities, and whatever else that may provide?
Is this the Kirk that was in the project Phoenix project?
It’s not because the label on Kirk’s remains at Daystrom Station indicated that they were recovered from Veridian III.
As for alt-Kirk’s body, it could be that they do, but it’s also equally possible that DTI did a clean up.
Really liked it. It was the best SNW episode for me so far. However I really don’t like the whole changing of established continuity via time travel.
It’s never been in any way realistic that most of the time travel incursions didn’t somewhat change the Prime continuity.
There are exceptions with the Guardian of Forever’s intervention, but First Contact and Voyager’s temporal interventions had to had changed the small things.
Besides, Roddenberry himself decided to change the timing of WW3 and the first human warp technology in TNG Encounter at Farpoint. There has been a change in continuity since at least that point.
This actually makes sense of it in-universe and in terms of physics.
It’s fans rigidly trying to ignore these revisions in the Prime timeline that is an issue in terms of physics.
This is the best episode of modern Trek since Magic to Make…
It hit all the right notes and felt so Star Trek. Don’t get me wrong, I love serialized seasons, but Star Trek is at it’s best when it doesn’t take itself too seriously, while also simultaneously dealing with serious plot points.
I love that Kirk had to die saving his own worst enemy so that the Federation could exist.
and subverting the “hero goes back in time to kill a mass murderer” trope, with “hero goes back in time to save a mass murderer”
I actually thought the plot of Picard series 2 was going to be something like this, Picard has to ensure WW3 happens, dooming millions to save his future. Instead we got, well what we got.
Seems to me that they are merging the eugenics wars and wwiii together in canon. Maybe the eugenics wars are the catalyst for wwiii or something like that?
Makes sense to be fair. The Augments take advantage of the War to seize a portion of the planet in all the confusion.
I didn’t expect to like this episode as much as I did.
Wesley’s Kirk is growing on me, and I give the EPs credit for using the alternate timeline Kirk’s to let his performance coalesce. I also like the deft weaving of the crazy car driving, heartbreaker Kirk with the think five steps ahead genius that he also had to be.
The acknowledgement in-universe that the timeline and humanity’s development has been interfered with is entirely credible given the accretion of temporal incidents across every era of the franchise.
I’m not sure how I feel about it giving comfort to those who feel so strongly that this isn’t the same timeline as the original TOS one. (I see some chortling on this point elsewhere.) Likely the temporal physics of this is best left for a deep dive /c/Daystrom Institute discussion, but I prefer hold to a view that this is absolutely still the same Prime timeline but that the timeline itself has been perturbed repeatedly even if the key events have kept their integrity. In fact, the Romulan temporal agent, while not a reliable narrator, gave credence to the idea that the Prime timeline had proven unexpectedly robust against major intervention by humanity’s enemies.
I was delighted to see DTI show up and be named. It seems all of a piece of DTI’s rigidity that they would leave La’an alone to deal with the trauma. It does however mirror Pike’s own experience in sealing his future with the time crystal. One senses that there must be some kind of intersection or mutual revelation to come, leaving aside the Chekhov’s gun of the temporally dislocated watch.
Knowing that Anson Mount had to relocate to Toronto with his wife and newborn explains why episodes featuring others in the ensemble were front loaded for this season. He’d said before he committed to the show that creative conversations would be needed as he wasn’t wishing to repeat the production experience he had in Discovery season two. A creative conversation with the EPs that limits a principal character’s presence is fairly extraordinary, but Mount seems to have done it in a way that’s generous to the rest of the ensemble.
With an ensemble so strong, and as we didn’t see as much of Chapel or Una as we would have liked last season, I’m fine with waiting to see more Pike later in the season. It sounds as though we have a Spock focused and an Ortegas to come before some big ensemble pieces in the back half.
If anything doesn’t this prove that this does take place in the same timeline as TOS but that timeline is in flux due to time travel and interference?
That’s exactly it.
That really explains a lot. Kudos to the production for really playing well to their constraints like this.
Not bad for a time travel episode. I feel like these have a better shot at working with the episodic format. I was relieved when the car chase scene turned out to be more of a reasonable speed thread the needle through cramped city center streets rather than some over the top Bay schlock; I was sure it was going to be schlock when he chose the flashy red sports car.
That was a love letter to trek time travel stories and a nice character piece for Christina who feels less and less like a budget Drummer ripoff. Like any episodal television SNW is a bit hit and miss but better the occasional highs than a season long arc that drags and disappointments.
Yes, first season it was jarring, this season she feels more like an original character.
Random thoughts as I watch (cross-posted from the old place):
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Wow, first that outburst, and then Spock jams too much. Truly in his wild child phase.
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BTW, was that a Denobulan?
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Pelia totally worried that this whole utopia thing just a passing trend. And hilariously having to prove (?) she isn’t a thief.
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They really are taking advantage of Babs O’s Jiu-Jitsu training this year, aren’t they?
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Captain James T. Kirk, the greatest menace of Temporal Investigations!
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Oh boy, alternate timeline where the Federation doesn’t exist time!
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“Maple leaves, politeness, poutine.”
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Clever distraction.
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I wonder if 3D chess is a thing in the United Earth Fleet timeline, because Kirk is good at the 2D in it.
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Okay, I guess they do have 3D Chess.
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I generally try not to be like this… but goddamn I’d like to thank them for having Christina Chong in various states of tight clothing and undress.
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Good thing the time travel guy went to the ship Sam Kirk was on.
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Oh man, I was looking forward to driving across Lake Ontario to Toronto (presumably from Rochester or Buffalo or something, right?), which totally would be a logical economic and engineering choice, I’m sure!
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Mildly annoyed that Kirk doesn’t drive to Beastie Boys.
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James Discreet Kirk
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Soongs gonna break in even to the timelines and series they aren’t in.
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Jim Discretion Kirk
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OH FUCK ROMULANS
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We have gone (zero) days without Romulans trying to screw up the timeline.
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Probably the first time that DuckDuckGo has been mentioned in Star Trek.
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Yeah, Pythagoras is the worst, Pelia.
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Oh, so this is a predestination paradox where they make her become an engineer and as a result she is there to inspire La’An to go look for her later.
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KHAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN! KHAAAAANNNNNNNNN! (Or at least the institute for him)
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To be fair, this is like the third face that Captain Kirk has had.
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We have gone (ZERO) days without a time-travelling Romulan that had to ditch the ears.
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We have gone (ZERO) days without (a) Captain Kirk dying. We’re three-for-three on Kirk actor deaths, folks!
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KHAAAAAAAAAANNNN! KHAAAAAAANNNN! KHAAAAAAANNNNNN!
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THEY CAME UP WITH AN EXPLANATION WHY THE EUGENICS WARS DIDN’T HAPPEN IN THE 90’S! THE MAD LADS DID IT!
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Face to face with great-great-great-great grandpa Baby Genetics-Hitler.
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Oh, great, temporal investigations. No wonder they hate Kirk so much, even his alternate versions screw stuff around.
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Good ep. Way better than it sounded when I first heard about it.
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At the very least the Time Agents could send La-An a therapist or something.
@ValueSubtracted
A nice La’an episode.@ValueSubtracted
IMHO the time travel is more the background for the La’an and Kirk episode.
They rush so through it that it doesn’t seem to me the A plot.The love interest between them developed to quickly in my opinion. It felt a bit unnatural, especially for La’an who is usually much more in control of her responsibilities and composure.
On the other hand … it’s Kirk after all, and she was just charmed. Part of it was having her heritage erased which allowed her to open up. Part of it also could have been that it’s just love at first sight for her and she knows it. It was quick, but the speed was consistent with the nature of what was happening.
I agree with you but I think they were trying to get the setup across with her sparring with M’Benga at the beginning, and the doc saying something to the effect of it better not being alone? He’s already established to be a good reader of body language.
But I have to say I did sigh inwardly when the romance angle was hinted at (her looking at Kirk in the night). Would’ve been better to keep it back for something developed over a time. Though I suppose given the end there’s the possibly of a relationship with the Kirk from her reality?
There is such a thing as love at first sight, besides Kirk is a charmer who treats everyone with respect and he’s a highly accomplished officer. They were also put together in a difficult situation, which is a setting that can bring people close.
as well as that La’An hasn’t met someone since grade school that had absolutely no idea of her lineage. She’s a little broken in that respect, and it would make sense to me totally that someone would just absolutely fall for someone who not only didn’t treat her differently, but had absolutely no idea whatsoever why anyone would.
This was definitely my favourite episode of the season, and possibly of the series. I thought Kirk was badly cast, but actually after seeing him in this episode, I get it. He is not our Kirk, but he actually does bring something very Kirk-ish to the role that I hadn’t appreciated previously.
That is an excellent way of stating it, re Kirk. He wasn’t doing it for me, and I thought I had it figured. He looks like Pine, who tried to mimic Shatner’s mannerisms, but didn’t really deliver the Shatnerisms. Here I was able to accept him as his own thing, and it was fine.
He felt more like TOS Kirk than movie and pop culture Kirk.
