Google is developing a Terminal app for Android that’ll let you run Linux apps. It’ll download and run Debian in a VM for you.
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Engineers at Google started work on a new Terminal app for Android a couple of weeks ago. This Terminal app is part of the Android Virtualization Framework (AVF) and contains a WebView that connects to a Linux virtual machine via a local IP address, allowing you to run Linux commands from the Android host. Initially, you had to manually enable this Terminal app using a shell command and then configure the Linux VM yourself. However, in recent days, Google began work on integrating the Terminal app into Android as well as turning it into an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.
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Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture. It’s also preparing to add some settings pages to the Terminal app, which is pretty barebones right now apart from a menu to copy the IP address and stop the existing VM instance. The settings pages will let you resize the disk, configure port forwarding, and potentially recover partitions.
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If you’re wondering why you’d want to run Linux apps on Android, then this feature is probably not for you. Google added Linux support to Chrome OS so developers with Chromebooks can run Linux apps that are useful for development. For example, Linux support on Chrome OS allows developers to run the Linux version of Android Studio, the recommended IDE for Android app development, on Chromebooks. It also lets them run Linux command line tools safely and securely in a container.
I’ve never tried it myself, but I think you can run full Linux VMs on Pixel phones already. A quick search brings up https://www.xda-developers.com/nestbox-hands-on/
Anyone have experience with this or similar options? Personally I’ve never used anything more advanced than Termux (which is lean and super cool, but not a full-blown VM).
You can pretty much chroot into a full debian installation, and even make kernel calls higher than that natively supported by your phone through
proot. It’s a weird time to be alive.
I don’t really see the need. It would be nice to have KVM but other than that I don’t see much point.
Does termux not already do this?
No, Termux uses prootOnly distro environments use proot. Termux runs as a normal app and just has binaries stored locally.
Which is better no?
I’d like to be able to run containers
What do you mean? Wayland isn’t “a thing”.
There’s no app called “Wayland”. So I’m not sure what you want “hooked up”.
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about… It’s a protocol. A document. You need some application that implements it. Like KWin, or Gnome.
Which still needs a wayland compositor to work, but I get your meaning now. You simply want it to be possible for there to be GUI support with some sort of wayland compositor.
Can’t wait to have Google’s telemetry injected into my Linux apps
This could be really interesting. I don’t personally see a use case for me to run Linux apps on Android. I could see myself running android apps on Linux though. Pretty happy to see this.
Why not androids terminal since android is base on linux this one just downloads debian
Android userland is vastly different from ‘linux’ ie desktop linux people are used to. While there exists unshare/proot based containers (termux is an example) it might not be suitable for privileged features of kernel except for rooted devices.
Chromeos is much closer to desktop linux (init being upstart not systemd afaik) but still the ‘linux’ apps run inside crosvm to keep the locked down nature of the os intact.
makes sense and i thought termux uses the android terminal
chromeos yeah it makes sense aswell its linux with google spyware i seen some distros use sysvinit and runit instead of systemd (aka systemd-free distros)
Cool and all but id rather run android apps on a linux phone.
You can already, Waydroid exists
Linux phones do exist, I was saying that you could use Waydroid on those devices (although you can also use it on Linux Desktop), such as postmarketOS on eg a Fairphone 5.
Okay but they only run on pretty weak(usually because it has to be old) hardware. We need a linux flagship phone.
Fairphone 5 isn’t old. It’s a fairly recent, midrange phone
Would it be like a Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) but then for Android?
Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture.
This is the part I cared about. Can it run x86_64 programs, or is it just an ARM-compatible version of Debian?
If it can actually run x86_64 programs on ARM devices, then that’s kinda fucking sick and would likely help the world transition to ARM. Like, fuck Google, but this sounds like a good thing, maybe?
Can it run x86_64 programs
The article sound like it will work for x86 devices running Android as well. I don’t think this is about emulation.
devices with an x86_64 architecture
Sounds like the opposite of what you want; you would want x86_64 code on devices with an ARM architecture.
But I didn’t actually read the article, so maybe that line is poorly worded
That just sounds painfully inefficient (though we’ve been doing stuff like this for decades).
Arm isn’t as efficient at higher cpu states as x86, and running a VM you’re definitely going to up the cpu usage.
Still interesting to watch. And every use-case is unique. For the typical short-run process this is for, it’ll probably be fine.
We already have termux for that, and on a rooted device you could do pretty much anything. This is pointless
Termux already does a lot of cool stuff without root. Makes due a decent ssh client in a pinch.
Yeah, I just installed Debian in Termux last night. I’ve got a Samsung phone with a locked down bootloader, so it’s the best I can do.
Steam?
Steam requires it to be installed in an x86 environment, whether natively, or through emulation (and most x86 emulation has significant overhead and imperfections)
But java applications should run natively if you supply an appropriate build of java. I have an arm VPS that I’ve hosted several Minecraft servers on without any problems (other than those I created myself) and I also learned by accident that Microsoft’s builds of OpenJDK actually work for (at least some) Minecraft versions that they aren’t supposed to, so I have to wonder if that’s a happy accident or intentional work by Microsoft
No, not unless you have an x86 Android device. While this will run Linux apps, it will be limited to the CPU architecture. Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I’m not aware of?
Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I’m not aware of?
https://steamdb.info/app/3043620/
It appears Valve is working on Proton for arm64, I was wondering if this is to attend the mobile market, a new Index or maybe a smaller Steam Deck.
box86/box64, and there’s also FEX-emu which is used by the Asahi Linux project (Linux on Apple Silicon macbooks).
You can use QEMU’s usermode emulation to transparently run ARM binaries with binfmt_misc on x86.
I just wish I had vim with a tiny keyboard that I hit with one finger
Need a bigger phone so you can hit it with 2 fingers instead of one :D
I need to drink water and have at least one meal a day. Big screen phone is a luxury that I can’t afford
Termux has been a thing for years.
Not arguing, just curious: what makes chroot insecure? I’ve used it for installing Gentoo, but I don’t really understand what it’s doing under the hood.
Chroot = change root, and needs root to do so. Doing anything as root is insecure. escaping a chroot really isn’t all that hard. The second you elevate privledges, you need extra steps to to become secure. Chroot almost never involves any of these steps (though there is some selinux stuff you could do.)
This is an old example, but still a valid one https://github.com/earthquake/chw00t
Termux doesn’t run arbitrary software. There’s a pretty large set that does but plenty doesn’t. A VM would resolve that.
Ehh it kinda does considering you can get a pretty full compiler tool chain running via termux.
Through termux you can already install a full linux distro on android. It is a little slow, but full desktop environment. Not bad if you have a phone that supports display output
Do you mean via QEMU without hardware acceleration?
I didn’t think to check how it worked, other than the graphics part is accessed via a VNC app. If you have a spare phone check out Anlinux on PlayStore or F-Droid
Anlinux
This application will allow you to run Linux on Android, by using https://f-droid.org/packages/com.termux and PRoot technology, you can even run SSH and Xfce4 Desktop Environment!!!
Features:
- NO ROOT ACCESS REQUIRED!!!
- Lots of Linux distros supported:
- Ubuntu
- Debian
- Kali
- Parrot Security OS
- Fedora
- CentOS
- openSUSE Leap
- openSUSE Tumberweed
- Arch Linux
- Black Arch
- Xfce4, Mate, LXQt, LXDE Desktop Environment Supported
- Install multiple distros without conflict
- Provide uninstallation script to fully uninstall distro
The problem with the desktops in termux is that the apps don’t work reliably.
I found generally it was fine but some needing true root hardware access failed
Firefox doesn’t work right and neither does chromium
So is termux a containerized Linux? (I haven’t looked into it yet, just on my list). I had assumed it was a VM, guess I was incorrect.
My sense was that it’s kinda like cygwin. Just natively compiled apps and a filesystem layout.
This is correct. There’s no containerization like LXC/Docker.
…and a filesystem layout. They don’t install things to the “root” linux so they have their own /var, /bin, /usr, etc.
I doubt it - it runs in an android sandbox. Why would they even bother? it’s easier to just create a filesystem “chroot” and use that. That way you get full read/write and control of versions.
Termux is just prootTermux is just a shell running in the context of an app
Termux isn’t just proot, but you can install proot inside termux
It is proot based though. It is very useful but it does have disadvantages.How is ut proot based? Afaik it runs binaries built for termux and not any linux binaries. Isn’t it directly executing the files?
Maybe I’m mistaken then. I had in my head that it was proof based. However, that wouldn’t make any sense as Termux has access to the system
protogens made it :3
Yeah but I bet google’s one will have lots of cool features like being harder to use and not supporting becoming root and requiring google play services for no discernable reason
If it’s anything like ChromeOS, it’ll be a VM where you can do whatever you want, within that VM.
And will be cancelled in 18 months with 2 weeks notice.
Termux recently got moved off of the play store (kinda), and is now only available on f-droid/github, because Google was further locking down what they allowed on their store.
And in addition to that, they recently added a restriction in later versions of Android: “Child process limit”. Although this limit used to not there, when enabled, it prevents users from truly running arbitrary linux programs, like via termux.
Although the child process limit can still be disabled in developer options, it doesn’t bode well for how flexible base android in the future will be, since many times corpos like Google move stuff into the “secret” options before eventually removing that dial all together.
TLDR: Termux has been, and is a thing… for now.
Also, I want to shout out winlator. It uses a linux proot, similator to termux, and has box64 and wine inside that proot that people can use to play games. I tested with Gungeon, and it even has controller support and performance, which is really impressive.
I used Winlator at the start of the year just to test out some little itch.io games and it was pretty basic, huge to hear how far it’s come already!
winlator can run windows apps on android
Hey that sounds neat!
uses ubuntu as a base
Oh no…
MIT license
oh no
Have to install from github/no F-Droid build
oh no
Winlator is really just termux + proot + box64 + wine wrapped in a neat UI (+ controller support). You can, and people have set this up manually before winlator came along. You’ll either need termux-x11 or vnc for the GUI.
Mobox is a similar project that does this automatically via a script… but I don’t see a license in their github repo, plus they require the proprietary input bridge for touch controls.
Yeah… While making users run Linux applications on a system where Google is root might be a wet dream for Google, it’s more of a nightmare for me.
I really hate the fact that the vast majority of consumers are perfectly fine with not being in full control of their appliances and that Google (and others) register everything they do.
It’s the convenience angle.
I have very experienced IT friends who continue to use privacy invasive crap, knowingly because they like the convenience.
That kinda thing is a sliding scale for everyone, if my Linux machine wasn’t 90% as reliable and usable as when I was on windows I would probably still be using windows
And yet there they all are, using corporate garbage.
Well, it is.
It’s a lot more work to use not-Google stuff on Android. Which I try very hard to do.
Now trying to get a family member to install and run anything not from the Play store is like pulling teeth.
Well, yeah, because most apps depend on Google services.
I thought the snapdragon Samsung rooting would be farther along than where we are now. I’m stuck with my phone until further notice s23u
graphene OS. i would not have bought an android phone if i had to use google roms
